Asklemmy

I find it depends on how they get compensated.

It depends, mostly on yourself and how you feel about it. Most artists have shown some form of shitty behaviour - Dave Grohl cheated on his wife for example. Is that enough to stop listening to his music? Probably not. Kanye West released a song called "Heil Hitler"...is that enough? Probably, but does that also count for his older songs? You decide. No one else can.

Absolutely. With all forms of art, I feel this is an extension of the Death of the Author concept, in that you separate the art from the artist, and it has less to do with what the artist intended and more to do with your take and interpretation of something, good or bad, and it's effect and meaning for you.

For example, due to my childhood and lots of past trauma, I harbor some deeply resentful and hateful feelings toward Christians and Christianity in general. However, there are some Christian rock and metal bands I have always loved, and a lot of their music doesn't always scream religion at me. I appreciate and enjoy some of these still today, despite the fact they ultimately are representing something I detest. The way I enjoy it and what it means to me is different from what they intended.

I've never felt guilty for consuming media of people who have done bad things; it's not that it's not important to have integrity, I just assume everyone I could consume media from has and does, and the difference is that I'll either never know, or don't know yet.

We can't just throw away historical and culturally significant works because the creator(s) are terrible, in part because broken, complicated, terrible people make these works because that's where the creative energy is.

I can't, personally. Same with any art. Kanye can get fucked. Manson can get fucked. Pantera can get fucked. Neil Gaiman can get fucked.

Some are harder to walk away from than others though. Sandman and Death were two of the first comic book characters that I ever got to read complete stories of and not just random back issues. But I'll never be able to look at another Gaiman creation again without thinking about everything.

Others are easier to leave behind. Bands like Pantera always came across as macho dickheads that beat up kids for listening to heavy metal back in school anyway. So I feel nothing saying nazi metalheads fuck off

If they get even a cent from you, then you are funding their crap. Also whatever you don't like about them will certainly be part of their art. If that doesn't bother you, then sure, enjoy what you want.

I don't think so. You're always going to remember. You can be good at pushing it down. But it's always going to be in the back of your mind. Just depends how skilled you are at ignoring that part of your mind really.

Explain Manson pls

I’m sorry I should read more English literature, but I’m a bit in a hurry right now.

1. You shouldn’t feel guilty if you haven’t given them a cent since they’ve been exposed as Nazis (and as a rapist in Monson’s case), and if you haven’t listened to any new release, i.e. if you don’t contribute to their careers now. You may have done this in the past, even by normalizing them, but that’s all you can do right now, and at the same time the bare minimum.
2. Should you feel allowed to get emotional on a Nazi’s music? Cold rationality may make us stray away from humanity when we touch this topic, honestly; I’m all for rationally discussing Nazism, but ambivalent people really need to understand that a Nazi is de facto a monster first, and that they’d be so much more useful dead than alive that it outweighs the usual considerations on their dignity as a human being. Now, yes, if it helped you keep pushing back then, if you don’t fund their careers and if you don’t listen to new releases.
3. As a reminder, you may self-host a private tracker on an old computer that won’t boot Windows 10 for you and your friends, complimented by a Jellyseerr/Sonarr/Readarr setup. Anyone with a bit on experience in piracy has a few high-quality discographies, so maybe one of your friends has downloaded their discographies on TPB back when they were “controversial”.
4. As a semi-related reminder, the IRC protocol is designed for asking questions. Linux distributions (and other standard operating systems) have the best compatibility; interestingly enough the protocol has kept one third of its user base since its peak, and the Undertale’s Undernet is actually the name of one of its oldest servers. You’re probably gonna need help with your first server so feel free to come around and ask questions.

Sure. Just don't pay. I listen to some very questionable or morally disgusting songs because I like the music. And I personally never care for the author's life story. I don't ask who builds my car either.

What's wrong with Marilyn Manson that wasn't 20 years ago?

Yes. It would be necessary to live a modern life, given almost everything we use/eat comes from some unethical source. We abstain from the things that are important to us, according to our values. Lyrically if a song does not itself promote [terrible thing] then the music can be separated from an artist that does.

However if it is important to you that your listening does not generate income for those people, don't listen to their music in apps (eg Spotify, who pays based on plays), nor on their official YT channels (which are likely monetised).

Also, be mindful that playing/listening to it around others is a form of 'conspicuous consumption', one of many ways our actions become 'Word of Mouth' advertising. This may lead others to believe you support the artists specifically, and depending on their values, they may be derisive or hostile. (Or, they agree with [terrible thing] and believe you are alike.)

Of course, just don't give them money. Unless you're listening to the musical equivalent of "The Eternal Jew"/"American Sniper", in which the content was not only made by hateful, possibly hellbound people but is also actively trying to morph your ideology to be more like theirs, what's the danger?

Do a hecking piracy. Problem solved.

Ripping stuff from YouTube for personal use isn't even illegal.

I don’t think it bad to still enjoy their music. If the music is good then its good regardless if the author is good or not. I understand not wanting to support them however. So though I don’t think its bad to still listen to them I understand how others fell differently

Sometimes it can be difficult to separate the art from the artist, particularly when the artist in question is especially vile.

Just pirate their music. Don't stream it, don't go to their concerts, don't buy and wear their merch. As long as you're not financially contributing to them then I don't think there's any issue.

It also, like CaptainPedantic said, matters what they're singing about. If the artist has shitty views but doesn't present them in their music that's one thing but there's no ethical way to listen to something called Heil Hitler.

The most politically incorrect truth is this: People are not good or bad, individual people do a variety of good and bad things. Mister Rogers told his gay friend to stay in the closet and marry a woman. Hitler banned animal cruelty. We don't like to talk about these things, but it's a true principle and a useful one to live by.

Yup. It's very easy indeed.

Pirate the fuck out of their stuff, enjoy, repeat.

Edit: the exception is when the the fuckery is in the music/art.

I'd say it depends on WHY you like the art. Does it tie into the toxic or reprehensible traits of the artist? Was the artist trying to send a toxic or reprehensible message with this art?

If not, then it's just a matter of ensuring that your enjoyment of the art doesn't translate into support for the artist. Or, at least, that it doesn't cross your personal line of support for the artist.

So, for example, does the Kanye music you like have nazi themes or messaging? Far as I'm aware, no, the nazi-ism is just his newest shit, so you're probably fine as long as you're not streaming from Spotify or YouTube, or otherwise giving him revenue.

Yes. It's called seperating the artist from the art.

Dont support them by buying their stuff. Just pirate their music. For me personally, i dont follow artist in anyway shape or form. I have bigger problem to worry about. I just listen to songs i like and go on with my day.

Very curious how old-time Kanye fans feel haha

In my mind, as long as you're not listening to a horrific song (like Kanye's Heil Hitler), and as long as they're not seeing a penny from you listening to them, then I don't think it's a huge issue. You're getting something from them while screwing them out of some money.

I always assume most popular artists in general are horrible people, so yeah...

Is Marilyn Manson a dick? I thought they were just weird.

YMMV. There is no universal answer to this question. None of us separate the artist entirely from the work and thus our enjoyment of it. I think of it in video game terms. Every artist has a power bar. They can get hit a couple of times and can still be tolerated when they're in the yellow. But once we're in the red zone and the character starts getting translucent or is flashing I'm out. This is all very subjective though.

Marylin Manson went red for me and I scrubbed the songs I liked from my playlists. Michael Jackson also. But I continue to listen to The Smiths/Morrissey in spite of Morrissey's politics. I still enjoy Pink Floyd although Walters and Gilmore are profoundly unlikable characters and Walter's politics rub me the wrong way a lot of the time.

In the age of streaming, there isn't a lot of money going to the artist. You're not really supporting them financially if you enjoy their music in spite of any a-holery, moral or criminal, they may have committed. If you get something out of it, continue to do so. If it feels yucky then I'm gonna guess one more hit is putting the character in the red. And if you paid for the music/album, the "damage" is already done.

I'm glad I was never a big fan of Kanye's œuvre so I don't have to wrestle with this question about him. I think he would have done enough to drain his power bar thrice over and thus it's game over for me. I wish he had more well meaning people around him who could help him to protect himself from himself.

Well there is enjoying an artists music and there is supporting an artist and defending them. But you have to decide when to cut off an, "abusive relationship". I can hold a person and artist in separate spaces. A love a lot of music, literature, art that was created by terrible people but try and avoid giving those people my attention and money. Other people have said that while an artist creates, its not their art, it's ours. Perfect example is Harry Potter books. I would say that people's experience and enjoyment of the books is not JK. Now the tough decision comes when you want something created by an artist/company and you have to support them for your own enjoyment. That is the line we all consider. Just trust yourself to find it. Nothing is truly just in this world but we shouldn't stop trying.