this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2024
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[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 80 points 2 months ago (3 children)

The Greek pantheon wasn't known for being just or consistent. And technically, Prometheus didn't even steal anything. The gods could still make fire as they pleased.

Prometheus pirated fire. And the punishments for piracy are worse than theft.

[–] chaosCruiser@futurology.today 17 points 2 months ago

You wouldn’t download fire…

[–] Wrufieotnak@feddit.org 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I never considered it, but you are perfectly right. Prometheus was the first pirate and anti copyright activist! That makes me like him even more.

[–] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 3 points 2 months ago

Patrgon god of yar!

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 months ago

Prometheus: "If you can't own fire, then stealing it isn't piracy."

Zeus: "I can own fire."

Prometheus: "oh."

[–] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 67 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

There's a couple of ways to approach this idea. Literal and figurative.

Within the myth itself, the oldest version has the theft occurring after Zeus banned humanity from having access to fire because of fuckery with sacrifices (that was instigated by Prometheus). So, if taken is the myth is taken literally, it isn't about whether or not humans could pick up fire that Zeus created via lightning, or other methods, it was about them not being allowed to. By Prometheus giving them fire, he gave them the means to make it themselves rather than it being something the gods owned exclusively.

While that still has the hole that it was basically trying to play games to bypass the command of Zeus rather than giving something humans could have tried to steal on their own, and ignores that fire is a phenomenon of physics and chemistry rather than only being granted by a divine force; it's still the gist of that original myth as it existed when Hesiod set it down in writing.

Now, I think we all know that the myths weren't literal at all. There was no Zeus, and lightning wasn't the only source of fire for humans at all. There's not much in the way of hard evidence of how humans first harnessed fire, whether it was from external sources like lightning, or lava; or if it was discovered as part of the flint knapping process (little sparks can fly under the right circumstances), or other options.

And it isn't like the Greeks necessarily held every myth to be literal truth. They did have a degree of awareness of myth as symbolism.

And that's where the figurative comes in.

If your interpret the myth as fire being symbolic of technology, of thought and philosophy, of shifting from hunter-gatherer culture to a more stable location that allows for development of technology faster, then what Prometheus stole wasn't fire, it was the essence of divinity, the spark that made the gods other than human.

In that respect, you have to understand that Prometheus wasn't just some rebellious underling. He was a Titan, descended from the oldest gods, just as Zeus was. He was a god of fire, and in some myths was the one that made humans, shaping us from clay. Which is obviously not unique to Greek mythology, but it sets up Prometheus as not only our creator, but our champion among the gods and titans.

Indeed, he's credited in myth with bringing us more than fire. Art and science were credited to him as well.

Taken as a story about our place in the world, and how we exist as thinking beings, Prometheus is our drive to understand the world around us, and fire is our harnessing even the most primal of forces to our wit and will. It becomes a story of humanity being more than reactive, animalistic creatures; of us seeking to understand the world around us in a way that no other animal has been seen to attempt.

That fire is the fire of creation, of science, of poetry and dance and song.

And, it's also possible to interpret the myth in other ways, but there's a limit to how much is readable on a screen before the eyes and brain nope out, so I'll leave it at that.

I will add that most libraries will have a copy of Bulfinch's mythology. It isn't necessarily a perfect source on Greek myths, but it does a good job at being as complete as possible at the time it was written, and doing so in accessible terms. With it being the default text for a very long time, it's also ubiquitous. Even if your library doesn't have a copy, there's project Gutenberg, and you can find torrents or other file sharing sources for it, for free. Amazon usually has free versions of it available too, though I haven't looked in a while.

[–] memfree@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 months ago

I thought I was going to rely to this question, but you covered it so perfectly that I've nothing useful to add. Thank you for putting in the time.

[–] Don_Dickle@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

God bless you for the in depth answer and typing it all out much love mate....no sarcasm.

[–] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago

No worries :)

[–] WhyAUsername_1@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Kindest samurai in the south. Thank you sire!

[–] EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted@lemmy.blahaj.zone 56 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Kind of seems like punishing a person for doing what you do.

Yeah, that's the Olympian gods for ya.

There's a reason almost all of Greek mythology can be summed up in only eight words:

"Unfortunately, Zeus was feeling rather horny that day."

[–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 31 points 2 months ago

Thats the point. Fire was reserved for the gods. He was not supposed to give it away

[–] potentiallynotfelix@lemdro.id 26 points 2 months ago

Prometheus gave the humans the ability to make use of fire, while Zeus only gave the humans a lightning strike which wouldn't be usable.

[–] rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The fire that Prometheus stole is a metaphor.

[–] Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 months ago

It was more literal than that IIRC. The gods were pissed at first but chilled out once the smells of the mortals cooking meat went up to Olympus. The only guy to suffer was poor Prometheus; condemned to have his liver eaten by an eagle as he remains chained to a mountain side.

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Zeus feared that with fire, humans would become powerful enough, maybe not to rival the gods, but certainly enough to stop fearing them so much, and to stop relying on them.

Zeus believed (rightly so) that humans who could master fire would undermine his power and control over them. This would be a threat to the stability of his rule over the pantheon.

He wasn't a loving god, and he never really approved of us to begin with. We were just playthings for the gods, created from the earth, but animated by esssences from the gods (tears, sweat, blood, I dont fully remember) and made in their likeness, with big intellects and free will, but smaller, like dolls.

Then the gods started breeding with the humans and everything went completely to shit.

[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Moral of the story: don't fuck your dolls.

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Dont let roombas learn how to use machineguns.

[–] swab148@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago
[–] Nikls94@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Wow! This bears a striking similarity to some apocrypha (idk the plural). Where Nephilim (like Moses or Noah - don’t remember who, but it was the one who was very very old and had many kids with a young woman - was supposed to be one) are mentioned, giants, half-gods. And in order to be wiped off the face of earth, "the one and only" flooded the planet, but Noah built the ark and survived.

[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The Olympians are a bunch of whiny ass petty excuses for gods.

[–] Sam_Bass@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Reflections of humanity be like that

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I'm so sick of this line. If I were ever a god I'd wipe those people out to teach them a lesson!

- Someone who is definitely not whiny or petty /s

[–] Sam_Bass@lemmy.ml 20 points 2 months ago

Thats the thing about fairytales. They can be told whichever way the teller chooses. That makes them highly subjective and open to interpretation with your interpretation not matching mine and vice versa. It all boils down to belief and we all know how varied that is

[–] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago (1 children)

For the Greek gods, the greatest sin was attempting to be like them.

[–] Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago

True of other gods as well, especially the one who insists on a capital G

[–] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 8 points 2 months ago

I don't think these myths are meant to be taken completely literally, but in any case, Zeus isn't exactly the most upstanding and consistent deity out of all mythologies.

[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Clearly Zeus was mad that Prometheus was... stealing his thunder.

[–] gilgameth@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

You, get out.

[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 4 points 2 months ago

I always understood that the fire was a metaphor for intelligence/knowledge, akin to the apple in the Bible. Humans having intelligence separate them from animals, therefore an step closer to gods.

[–] Mothra@mander.xyz 4 points 2 months ago

He taught those pesky mortals how to use fire, can you believe it? And the gods didn't create those mortals to begin with. Add insult to injury I guess.

[–] M137@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Holy title gore...

[–] d0ntpan1c@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 months ago

Lots of mythology is compiled from many incomplete sources, and not all common accepted stories will completely mesh up with others. It's also not uncommon for the myth of one village to be completely different from another regarding a particular entity, even if the towns are within a hour walk. What we have now is often just what survived.

[–] Brkdncr@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Modern mythology is full of holes and you’re expecting ancient mythology to be better?