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I love how all of lemmy and many other places on the internet bitched and moaned about people calling for Biden to drop out. Then he did and the party is more energized than it has been in years, and actually has a chance to, ya know, defeat American fascism.
I will admit I was wrong.
At first I was like noooooo, then when he endorsed Kamala I was like, oh god nooooooo...but I'll eat my words. I'm excited and happy with the outcome so far and, regardless, was voting dem anyway.
Like, maybe I'm speaking too soon, but I almost feel...a modicum of hope again?
I'll admit I was wrong too. I thought it would turn into an intra-party squabble that lasted weeks, but I'm pleasantly surprised. It's nice to be able to make a positive choice instead of just a "lesser evil" one.
Okay, I rarely comment on political posts on Lemmy, because I value my time, and my sanity. And I agree with you. This is our best chance. But I just want to say that Kamala does not represent a way to defeat American fascism. She represents a way to buy some time until we can form a movement that goes so far beyond neo liberal policies it's unreal. It's still unlikely, but she's hopefully buying us 4 years.
Maybe I'm just being pedantic, but it genuinely worries me when people think that Kamala or really any major politician in the US can defeat fascism. Normal got us here, normal will send us right back.
Again, not trying to be an ass, and perhaps you also meant she buys us time, but this shit scares me. If she wins in November, and even I, as a filthy commie, I hope she does, it isn't a victory in the war against American fascism. It's a bandaid, a canteen of water, and a chance to regroup.
Need to shift the Overton window to the left again before we can even look at the really liberal ideas.
I agree with you, but Kamala will probably still be the most left leaning president the USA ever had by quite a bit (AFAIK), and has a good chance to start shifting the Overton Window; if only by showing the Democratic Party that choosing more left leaning candidates actually gives them better chances of winning.
Maybe in the last 50 years. FDR was closer to an actual socialist than any politician who's had that label applied to them in America since. Kennedy was far enough left that he got shot for it. Kamala could have a chance to do some real good but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Please stop this. She's an acceptable compromise candidate, which is better than what Biden was. Overselling her is just going to lead to disappointment and bitterness when the ad copy doesn't match reality.
Yeah what I mean is the trump admin would shepherd in full fledged fascism. Especially considering sotomayor's age. It's critically important to the entire world that he doesn't win. Certainly more work to do after he's defeated.
Yep. I was very wrong. I completely misread the pulse of the Democratic party.
The pulse of the Democratic Party was supposed to be measured during the primaries. Obviously they are broken.
I'm extremely happy to admit I was wrong. I did bitch and moan, but it didn't fracture the party at all.
I was absolutely baffled at how many downvotes I got for saying I didn’t think Biden had his head in the game after he was like “I’ll do my best but if I lose oh well 🤷♂️”. Like… holy fuck. That was perhaps the most catastrophically tone-deaf thing I’ve ever heard an otherwise fairly skilled politician say - and I’ve heard a LOT of politicians say a LOT of stupid things.
Not to mention all the gaslighting, false accusations, condescension and abuse.
Yeah, I really don't understand the people that were against Biden dropping out. It was so very obvious after that debate. Just no way he was going to beat that narrative.
I didn't expect the party to so quickly coalesce around Harris honestly. I thought if Biden dropped out, it would be chaos and the Republicans would sail to victory.
It almost seems possible the democratic leadership might have potentially possibly maybe learned something perhaps and came up with a strategy for how to deal with trump that doesn't hinge on trying to do the same things that worked in 2020 (and then failed miserably in 2022). Good for them! Maybe next they'll learn they don't have to court moderate republican voters to switch sides, and instead focus on the vast swath of Americans who feel so disenchanted with American Politics that they don't vote, or even really pay attention to politics, because the Democrats are, globally, conservative, and the Republicans are, globally, insane
I agree with pretty much everything you say here except one thing:
2022 was an unmitigated success for Democrats. Not only did we keep the senate but we kept the Republican majority in the House razor thin. That was in defiance of polling and historical precedent.
Do you remember how the right went from talking about a "red wave" to bitter complaining and damage control in the span of about 12 hours? How we damn near ousted Boebert? How Michigan became a blue trifecta for the first time since 1984?
2022 was far from a miserable failure. It was far, far better than we had any reasonable hope for.
Sorry I was living in a state where the DNC was experimenting with what the grand plan would be for 2024 and the result was Trump-lite in a stupid little fleece vest became governor and in the years since Virginia has become a much less safe place to be a person of color, queer, or a woman.
Fair. I'll retract the "unmitigated" part.
Also re-reading my apology for getting lost in the sauce of my own bias of how I viewed 2022 I realize i might come across as being snarky when legitimately I forgot how that year went for everyone else because I was so frustrated watching both sides in VA say one of the candidates was exactly like Trump. I wasn't being sarcastic in my prior comment. Legitimately. I goofed up and I'm sorry
No worries, friend. I always try to believe the best in people until they prove otherwise, so I never took your comment badly. And I've certainly been on the other end of losing my cool before, too. Your frustration is very understandable and I can relate.
Besides, I lived in VA for about 5 years myself. We're practically former neighbors.
I had a lot of fun trolling the chuds in my fantasy football chat.
Welcome to "Leftism" where the feelings are made up and the facts don't matter!
Disclaimer: also applies to right-wingers
Or, you know, different regions had different realities on the ground post 2022 election.
Just because the party did well nationally, doesn't mean they didn't suffer in certain places.
I see your comment about Virginia. That sucked and we should have done better. I'm sorry, I assumed you were just another one of those edgy teenagers who always has to say "Democrats bad".
I thought the plan might be to make a bit of a spectacle of an open primary, depriving the convicted felon of the attention he so craves.
Hey, stop focusing so much on "I told ya so" to people who are definitely on your side. I was torn on it as well, but out of consideration for the potential impact being unknown. Hindsight is 20/20 and we're all better served by not gloating if we were right and instead focusing on the future path we are now on. Let's just keep it positive and build this victory through positivity instead of potential fractures with people who likely agree with you on the issues.
I think Biden supporters are not like bitter Bernie bros. I'm a Biden supporter, and all I'm seeing from fellow supporters is pleasant surprise. We didn't expect Harris to get this kind of support, but we're glad to see it.
Like Biden said in his speech today, saving our democracy is by far and away the most important thing, and it looks like Harris can do it so I'm happy to see my predictions were wrong.
I do still think Biden was done dirty, but Harris is an excellent candidate and will make a great President. And she has my full support.
If they hadn't been so arrogant and condescending while being absolutely completely 100% wrong, the temptation wouldn't be there.
But they were. They're the wing of the party that keeps insisting that everyone to their left doesn't know how anything works. Turns out, political reality isn't what it was in the early to mid '90s, and the republican-adjacent wing of the party is out of touch and doesn't know how anything works anymore.
It'll do centrists some good to eat crow. They need to reexamine their assumptions, because their assumptions led them to advocate continuing to run a losing candidate when democracy itself was on the line. And they need some of the uncharacteristic humility that some centrists in this thread are big enough people to actually show, and which I commend.
Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but id like to put a gentle reminder here that it doesn't help when political trolls show up pretending to be Democrats and start agitating people and causing infighting. There's actually sociology term for it. Covert trolling.
Sure, not everyone defending biden or those against biden was a troll, but I recently saw enough of them in the mix trying, and succeeding at causing infighting between people who otherwise agree on political issues.
I find it's helpful to remind myself that a lot of the people espousing inflammatory opinions and generally being rude online are trolls, and they don't reflect the real opinions of most of the population.
The trolls want to control the Overton window. We stop that by educating ourselves on their tactics, and recognizing them when they show up, and not engaging. They love nothing more than wasting everyone's time with long comment chains filled with circular arguments.
Also, your feelings are totally valid, just don't let shitheads make you bitter. I'm sure a chunk of the people you are calling out were instigators, and not people who actually believed what they were saying.
Sorry for the long comment, and feel free to ignore it if it's unhelpful to you!
It doesn't help that any time someone disagrees with a centrist, this is the immediate assumption.
unfortunately there's going to be people, often trolls themselves, who weaponize "you're a troll" to silence people. It's a way to deflect from their own inflammatory behavior. Or, it's someone who's sick of trolls and they are on high alert for them and had a false positive.
That's why I encourage people to not engage with a suspected troll. Their goal is to prevent productive conversations from happening and they enjoy wasting people's time. Instead of disagreeing with them, find someone else in the thread being reasonable and talk with them and contribute to productive and engaging conversations.
Also, sorry if this comes off a preachy, it's not my intention. I'm just trying to be careful with my wording so I say what I mean and don't accidentally offend.
Well, when we were saying this isn't a good idea to replace Biden the only solution yall were giving was well let's have a vote and see what people think.
That's not what happened. Kamala stepped up and nearly everyone rallied behind her.
So don't act like you're any better because when we argued the only solution was 'let's just throw shit at the wall and see what happens'
Our solution was to replace Biden. We were right. You lot were predicting chaos because you wanted to keep a geriatric genocide supporter who was losing.
EDIT: Reply to me in public or not at all.
I don’t know about “all of Lemmy.”
After the debate, most of the top comments were pro-dropout.
I swapped from calling for Biden to stay to calling for Biden to go once sitting Congresscritters spoke out in public asking him to step down, since the main advantage of incumbency is supposed to be the ability to preserve party unity, but I was still expecting a lot more "DEMS IN DISARRAY HOW CAN THEY EVER WIN" style narrative to take root. There's still time for me to be disappointed, but as of right now I'm pleasantly surprised.
I remember a week or two ago, the same crowd calling Biden to quit also bitch about how Harris would be a horrible replacement with absolutely zero chance gaining any support.
It turns out sending in a human instead of a vegetable might work out. That said, many complaints about her past as a "law and order" piece of shit are very valid.
Even now, I have a few reservations. I hope it doesn't get framed as some kind of DEI coronation. Well, I know the qons will try, but I mean, will it stick.
But if she's the choice, she's the choice. There are some alternatives I'd rather be running, but it is what it is. I'm still very pumped that Joe stepped down.
Republicans have been crying wolf about DEI for so long, there's no way that's gonna stick.
Yup, just like CRT or woke, if I see a Republican mention it my brain translates it to "white nationalist grievance."
No one on the left is offended by inclusivity, so their tantrums about her race and gender fall on deaf ears.
Also, folks on the left know she was elected to her biggest roles and not appointed. She earned her way to the top, unlike the shitty fake judges appointed by the cockroach party.
People are acting like this is over...
The problem is that they then pretend like they never acted that way & are going to great lengths to cover up that they ever did.
I was against Biden dropping out because I don't think Harris has charisma. I've been pleasantly surprised at the initial reaction.
While I hope to be proven wrong, I suspect this initial momentum is going to fade before long and it's going to get rough as the excitement dies down and the Right get their talking points dialed in.
But it's going far better than I thought in these first few days, so I'll happily take the L on my predictions.
Right talking points so far:
She's not a man
She's not white
She laughs
She doesn't have kids of her own
No, we were wrong and we're admitting it. Replacing Biden was the right call.
Kudos to you. I hope Democrats can continue to put voters interests above their own.