The_Terrible_Humbaba

Well, Jan 6 happened after the 2020 elections, and Trump has got nuttier and more openly extreme. His rallies and speeches this year leading up to the elections have been on a different level. I though more republications would be rethinking their choice to back him at this point, enough that Kamala could win despite a poor performance. Unfortunately, I was very wrong about that.

Fair enough, nice gotcha, it still doesn't change anything that I said.

Also, I forgot to add it to the other comment, and then I was just going to leave it out, but now I'm here again, so:

Yes it’s a start. What do you expect? The entire power grid and entire vehicle fleet to be redone in 2 years? Things take time

Fuck your "things take time", especially in a country that is both one of the richest and most polluting countries per capita in the world. A bunch of the world is becoming uninhabitable, storms become more frequent, some places are having a harder and harder time growing food, panama had to relocate people who lived on an island due to rising sea levels, and things are going to get exponentially worse, but "things take time guys, we can't rush it!"

Let me ask you this: are you vegan, avoid using plastic as much as possible, use public transport/walk/bike whenever possible, try to minimize your consumption as much as possible, try to buy locally, and overall do you just try to ethically consume? Or are you one of those "it's the government and corporations who have to do something"? Because you certainly can't be the second and then, when talking about one of the richest and most polluting countries in the world, say we need to take things slow.

You think that green energy isn’t left? Debt relief isn’t left? What planet are you on? Do I have to say left [of center]? Jeez.

No, it's not left. I've already explained to you why. If I then drive a monster truck everywhere and eat steak for every meal, but then I install a solar panel in my house, does that make me an environmentalist?

This election shows that Gaza didn’t matter one iota. Ukraine didn’t matter one bit. They didn’t even register, no one cared. Even your own human rights didn’t matter. It came down to inflation, housing, and further on the right xenophobia. Clinton was right “It’s the economy, stupid”.

Jesus, I really do honestly try not to be rude, but the amount of stupidity in one paragraph mixed with the arrogance is off the damn charts. Firstly, Hillary, the person you're quoting, lost the fucking election; secondly, neither candidate in this election was against selling weapons to Israel, both of them together had less than 50% of American citizens voting for them, and one of them - the one that has the largest overlap with pro-Palestine voters - lost the popular vote to the Republicans, which hadn't happened to Democrats since 2004, and your conclusion is "Gaza didn't matter and here's another Dem loser's take on it!". Careful that you don't get hemorrhoids with how hard you're shitting these takes out.

I did not say “so far left”. Do a ctrl+f and you won’t find those words. I said: “If the left doesn’t show up after Biden did green energy, IRA, student debt relief, non-compete clauses being banned via FDA, etc”.

Yeah, which implies those are very leftist measures and policies. Would you say "if the leftists don't show up to support racial segregation (...)" - no you fucking wouldn't, cuz it's obviously not a fucking leftist measure, is it? And neither are those, they are measures even most centrists agree with.

guess what fucking direction the Dems are going to sprint to? Yeah the Dems are going to sprint to the center. Because the left never shows up, or doesn’t exist.

They'll sprint to the center because that's historically what they always do, in this and other elections, and in other countries as well - refuse to compromise with the left, appeal to center and center right, and then blame the left when they lose. This isn't news for me and plenty of other people budy, we predicted this might happen and what the reaction would be - the only thing I didn't predict is that so many people would still support Trump - but plenty of people literally saw the writing on the wall about the support for Kamala and called attention to it, but the democrats don't want to accept reality, just as they didn't accept it in 2016.

the reality, as indicated by this election,

The reality indicated by this election is that less than 50% of Americans voted for either Kamala or Trump, and after Kamala had immense support and raised $1 Billion after replacing Biden, she attached to Biden, courted the center-right, and ended up losing the election.

Everything you said has nothing to do with the left, they are basic as shit things that event center and center-right European parties would do. I mean, what does the sentence "did green energy" even mean to you? The US is one of the largest polluters per capita in the world, installing a few solar panels means jack shit. Starting to heavily invest in public transportation, putting forth serious proposals to reduce the use of plastic, etc. would just be a start.

Meanwhile, they were also running on an anti-migration platform, just not as bad as Trump - remember how Democrats were so proud of the fact Trump shot down a Dem proposal that would reduce immigration?

Also, remember when Obama was elected on an anti-war policy in 2008? He even won a Nobel Peace Prize! And remember how Trump was elected in 2016 on a "pull back troops from the Middle East policy", standing opposite to "Hillary the Hawk"?

Meanwhile, while most of the world condemns Israels actions, and millions of people in the US protest the US involvement in the ongoing genocide, both candidates are in favor of supporting and giving weapons to Israel.

If your argument is "but Biden was so far left", then you're a perfect representation of what is wrong with the Dem party and the US in general.

Edit: I almost forgot this beautiful (\s) fucking cherry on top: Dick fucking Cheney endorsed the Dems. And you seriously wanna make the argument they couldn't have gone more left?

Some of what you said is relevant, but none of it has to do with Palestinians. That's my fucking point. I said a million times Trump is worse, but for Palestinians it makes no difference.

Israel decides to “annex” the West Bank. The settlers who are forcing Palestinians out of their family homes will have the backing of the IDF/US military. The people who are displaced will be executed.

They are already working towards that, they've been annexing the west bank for a long while, and they don't need US troops for it.

This is from 2020.

This is from July 2023.

Here's an entire wiki page about all they've been doing since 1967.

US troops sent to Israel to aid the IDF in their genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza

The genocide is already happening. And again, whether US soldiers or just the IDF are involved is irrelevant for the people being killed, it only matters for the Americans being drafted.

Israel decides to use chemical weapons to clear out populated areas, because at this point there’s no point in pretending to care about civilian casualties.

They already don't care, they've killed aid workers, journalists, and countless children. They've raped and tortured prisoners.

Netanyahu has the IDF go door to door executing Palestinian women and children, and then run over their corpses with bulldozers (again)

Exactly, "again". Do I need to say more?

And everything after that is about what Trump will do to people in America, about which we agree on, and I've already pointed out several times is not my point. My point is, for the last time, Trump is not materially worse for the people living in Palestine than Kamala, and pretending that he can do worse to them is to whitewash what is currently happening and to downplay the decade long genocide.

He's already working towards doing that. What I have asked, repeatedly, and which neither you nor anyone else has even tried to answer, is how, concretely, is Trump going to make it worse than it already is? I'll repeat myself for the millionth time: a bomb will kill regardless of whether it was supplied by Bide, Kamala, or Trump. A bomb will turn things to rubble no matter if it was supplied by Biden, Kamala, or Trump.

So once again, repeating myself like a mad person, tell me concretely - stop giving vague as fuck answers - concretely, what can Trump do to materially make Palestinian's life's worse?

Come back in 6 months when Gaza is nothing but a steaming pile of debris and revisit this conversation.

I have news for you.

That was 11 months ago.

I think you might be replying to the wrong person.

And one more comment where you give me nothing concrete. Every reply I get like this and which fails to give concrete examples just reinforce my point.

How about the left instead make compromises with reality instead?

Not sure if you noticed, but reality called and the Dems just lost. Turns out they can't win after refusing to compromise with the left and going after center-right voters. The same shit happened in 2016, but Dems refuse to learn. And, as always, blame the "drama baby leftists who can't accept reality", while completely missing the irony.

And people like you who demotivated the voters also deserve all the blame.

When you make assumptions, you make an ass of you and me both. Here's the last comment I made on the electoral race, July 25th, after Biden stepped down.

I agree with you, but Kamala will probably still be the most left leaning president the USA ever had by quite a bit (AFAIK), and has a good chance to start shifting the Overton Window; if only by showing the Democratic Party that choosing more left leaning candidates actually gives them better chances of winning.

Since then, I haven't said anything about it. But sure, if it makes you feel better, just keep on throwing blame everywhere except where it lies, like a monkey throwing feces everywhere. I don't have to excuse anything.