Obama was a unique situation in that he was both an incredibly charismatic JFK-style figure and ran after the Republicans had managed to both start a very unpopular war and destroy the world economy.

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Barack Obama also never released a campaign ad that said "Hey white dudes, we only think some of you suck."

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

this is why she lost, morons complaining about themselves. who fucking cares, that ad was not targetted at you, and if it was, grow some thicker fucking skin rather than voting for a fascist. I don't give a shit if the dems personally put me on a pedastal and said I was alone to blame for the US problems; I have a functional brain and can see what the actual problems are and who has actual solutions, or at least not exclusively ways to enrich himself and get revenge.

middle aged white dudes are the problem, I'm one of them. this morning, I was nearly assulted and arrested due to a roadrage incident. a dude in a pickup nearly sideswiped me at an intersection, I had to swerve to avoid him. At the light, he rolled down the window and started yelling at me. I rolled down mine because I honestly thought he was going to apologise but instead he started screaming insults at me because "you couldn't let me have that one car length!!!". I told him that after the shit this country just endured, this was how we wanted to handle things?

This was apparently the wrong answer because he jumped out of his car and started coming at me. I am not interested in a road rage altercation so I floored it and ran the red light. I would up cutting off a cop who saw the whole thing and let me go because I did the right thing.

this was my first interaction with a person since the election. I sincerly hope this was just tensions running high, but I can't help but feel this nation just gave that sort of problem solving it's full throated support.

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

2024 was the last time I'll ever vote for a Democrat, especially given how I'm being spoken to for doing it.

I'm done voting for the side that calls me their enemy no matter what I do. I'm done going out of my way for people who hate me. I'm done doing "the right thing" for people who are offended at the idea of expressing gratitude. It's been this way my entire adult life and I've got a belly full.

"Hey, you're going to need the support of white men to win this election, so you should probably address their concerns in good faith here." Nope. That wasn't acceptable to the Left. The people who said that got shouted down. A couple ads like the one linked below plus others got made that were very obviously designed to conform to feminist attitudes toward men first and demand of men second. They did indeed recognize that they needed my vote, but weren't willing to try seeing eye to eye with me at all. Saving the nation from fascism and preserving their own rights, freedoms and lives in the process wasn't a good enough reason to speak to people like me with respect. And now they can burn for it. And they're going to blame me for it, just like they've blamed me for everything their entire lives.

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

what a fucking snowflake.

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Piss into the wind some more there, bud.

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

you sound just like the motherfucker who tried to jump me this AM.

speak to people like me with respect. And now they can burn for it

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You're trying so very hard not to actually listen to me. Just like the Democrats.

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I don't typically attend MRA meetings so no, I'm not listening to you.

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago

And that is why I shall no longer vote Democrat.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Cool, lets fight authoritarianism by only letting people vote and be part of one party. That will sure to work out, not like this concept failed not 2 days ago or anything.....

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

huh?

where in anything I ever said did I even mention one party or anything? This is because reactionary idiots don't do research and/or don't care enough about others when their special little feels get squishy.. boo hoo...

I'm not a democrat, I very nearly didn't vote because I couldn't get behind either candidate but in the end it was a VERY easy choice given the realities of the situation. we now have a man, who is publically traded on the stock market, who praises dictators and authoritarians, who's sworn revenge on political enemies, who's plans are to deport millions, free a bunch of his violent supporters, destroy the economy with the dumbest economic plan in history because of this shitshow of an election. you could see it, I could see it, it was all there and obvious and you chucklefucks are sitting here complaining about your feels.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Ok you are upset because you think someone voted for one of only two parties counter to your "VERY easy choice" and that would leave only one option. That would mean a single "correct" way to vote, the same stance the Dems took in 2016, 2020 and 2024.

Lets walk though this, You are getting upset that when people talk about voters of a demographic not feeling represented by one of only two parties someone steps up to give their own personal example. The same party that just lost to what is clearly a fascist due in part to not getting the vote of above demographic. You instead start slinging shit to someone for even thinking about not voting "the right way" (see above how they say "2024 was the last time I will ever vote for a democrat") by laughably calling them a snowflake or a reactionary idiot (I guess this could also be me) instead of even pretending to read what you are replying to.

Neither myself (not from the USA) or the person above voted for Trump. The point I am pressing here is that the person who is getting their "special little feels get squishy… boo hoo..." seems to be you. You are advocating what? Shut up and take my guilt? Feel bad about living in a nation that given a choice between the status quo and fascism chose fascism chose fascism?

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Again, all you assholes think I’m upset about not voting for democrats. Vote for people, vote for issues, vote for the greater good. I have pulled the lever for both parties and independents, in the same election even

What im pissed about has nothing to do with party, its whiney assholes who think that their special feels issue is more important than preventing an open fascist from taking power.

I don’t care if turnip was a democrat, republican, alien, cat, slime mold or the actual god he believes himself to be, he’s going to destroy this nation and has told us all how. He’s going to deport millions, take away human rights, further enrich himself and his friends, he’s objectively worse on all the international fronts, letting Ukraine and Gaza be wiped out. Now, I don’t care for a second that there is a chance he was lying or too incompetent to pull it off, it’s all been promised and a bunch of selfish assholes wouldn’t stop it because they weren’t pandered enough to.

Yes, I am literally angry that this nation chose fascism over status quo. The nation and world is fucked because people aren’t willing to put in the work, to put aside their feelings for the greater good. I do not, apologize, nor feel guilty for feeling this way. I’m angry with the American public, mostly men (largely because I am one and can see the forest for the trees).

[–] bufalo1973@lemmy.ml 1 points 19 hours ago

Greater good or lesser evil?

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

a bunch of selfish assholes wouldn’t stop it because they weren’t pandered enough to.

Yeahhhhh, once again the people you are slinging mud at did not vote for Trump. And please think about calling other people selfish assholes because they did not do as you did for the next (if there is one) election, it might help.

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I am hot, I am upset, but again, it’s pretty obvious what my target is here. It’s not just the folks who did this it’s the ones who are refusing to learn from it and in fact give in to the exact same problem that got us here.

“I won’t ever vote for a democrat again” is the same team bullshit that to us here. And bolstered by the revenge bullshit for not being grateful. That is TOXIC, and that is the sort of thinking that got us here.

This is the internet, we swear here.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It’s not just the folks who did this it’s the ones who are refusing to learn from it and in fact give in to the exact same problem that got us here.

Yes, this we agree on. To bad we think its different people who refuse to learn. After all you want people to do the same thing (swallowing pride and voting Dems) every 4 years over and over. It was not about being "grateful" it was and is about treating people like pre-villans and then getting mad when they don't support your cause.

But hey, if you want to alienate people, go right on ahead and turn on your former allies. I am sure it will never come up that you might need 15 million or so of them.

I can swear all I want, but you will not catch me calling someone "TOXIC" for not agreeing with me.

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

No, I do not want anyone to swallow pride for a particular party you dense moron. I have said repeatedly that you should vote for issues, and the greater good regardless of party. What I am arguing against is an asshole who said that because he wasn’t thanked enough that they can burn next time because he won’t vote for their team anymore.

Yeah, I’ve been an asshole myself here, I’m a random angry internet jerk who’s pissed off about the election, but to be frank more pissed off at the selfish sort of behavior that got us here. It’s not the democrats, it’s not the republicans, it’s not the Green Party, it’s the people who voted for them (and the specific people they voted for).

edit- listen. I don’t know any of you, I only know the words you type here, just as you only know mine. I am being an asshole, I realize that, but it’s the emotion I’m feeling and trying to portray. it’s also kind of intentional because he point I am trying to make is that hurt feelings should never be enough to convince anyone of anything. To all the actual people behind these posts, I fully realize that you are not these posts and am sorry if my assholishness has caused you to be upset.

I still believe what I’m saying, I’m still angry to read these sort of reactions. Maybe I’ve just realized that the parties never spoke for me, and that every vote I’ve ever cast has been one that required me to hold my nose to some degree. Votes should be for the greater good, for minimizing suffering of the most, not because the party made me personally feel special.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Glad you can see you can be an ass, just wanted to point out the guy you where arguing against is also a pissed off voter in the same place you are in right now. And you can blame the voters all you want but this is very much the democrats and republicans (the greens really did nothing) show. Working towards not having a fascist in power is a better use of your time (the all be it sloppy, point of the other guys comments) then getting mad at people like you.

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

this is very much the democrats and republicans (the greens really did nothing) show.

I disagree, dems, republicans, greens, etc., they do what they always do, try to amass as much power as they can. It’s up to us to look at those choices that we have and make a good one. Usually it’s fairly inconsequential, often time it’s not though, and so it’s ultimately up to us to be informed and make the best choice. Saying things like you will never vote for a party again, when they are just another side of the same dice, is the sort of thinking that we actively MUST avoid.

We have a broken system, but at least up until now, we had the ultimate power to change it. We sure did this time, I sincerely hope we can do it again. If so, I pray we ALL take it seriously.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

My dood, it is a two party system. There was never really a choice (like you said a VERY easy one). You got to ether vote for the ruling party or a fascist. I don't think anyone needed to be very informed. Local elections? oh research the hell out of those, at the national level? in the states? There was never really an option. Just at this point people picked the non option.

No US voter had the "ultimate" power to change anything, just two things to pick between. In this case they picked to tear it all down in a weird fascist way.

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

K, sorry, felt like you were defending the greens and wasn’t sure where you were going..

I agree completely. But there was one before the election, and one before that, and one before that. Nothing good ever happens at once, it takes long and gradual change. I’m with you on the no real choice this time around but despite that, we got it objectively wrong. Point is a vote ain’t enough, and I blame stupid, lazy, simple minded people for that.

Kamala wasn’t a savior, but if people understood that progress is incremental and hard, they wouldn’t have voted for turnip. I blame the system yes, but we should be smart enough to play the game. We’re about to get what we asked for.

Anyway. Again sorry for being a shithead, I’m most certainly blowing off steam. Again, a little triggered by what I felt was the thinking that got us here. But again, my words are directed at the words, not the people. I’m usually a lot nicer when I’m not facing looming fascism.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 22 hours ago

Its a shit situation all around in this case. People are angry, and not without reason. I do hope that we can learn from it and earn a better place in the world, but I am also a pessimist so I too will get angry and likely not be helpful.

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Ok, so we’re at an impasse here. I do not find this line of thinking defensible and I do think this is the words of an asshole:

“Saving the nation from fascism and preserving their own rights, freedoms and lives in the process wasn't a good enough reason to speak to people like me with respect. And now they can burn for it. And they're going to blame me for it, just like they've blamed me for everything their entire lives.”

I’m in that exact same boat but I don’t give one single shit about not being thanked, nor for being blamed. Maybe it’s because I am a father and I don’t really live for myself but doesn’t matter because it’s not something that makes me feel bad. Men are a problem, men should do better, and they should do it because they are good, not because they deserve it, or they want thanks. Doing the good is the reward. My life’s guiding principal is the old Paul Wellstone canard: “we all do better when we all do better”. In the end, I’m just as selfish as everyone else because ultimately I’m after my own happiness and fascism, suffering, exploitation, cheating, etc. is antithetical to it.

I can already hear responses, yes both sides are terrible but one was UNDENIABLY far, far worse and we will face the same decision in the future so this ain’t a fucking team sport to me. I’ll pull the fucking trigger for satan himself if he’s going to maximize the good.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I don't see the words of an asshole, just a frustrated voter who taking the blame for something they voted to stop. If you read the quote you used you can see that they are calling out the problem they think cost the Dems the election, namely treating people like them with respect. They like anyone else expects to be treated with a bit of respect, and your response is to what? Prove them justified?

I’m in that exact same boat but I don’t give one single shit about not being thanked, nor for being blamed.

But you clearly do. I am not saying both sides are terrible (not sure why you are imagining the other half of a conversation), I am saying the US is in this mess partly due to this toxic bullshit about "Men are a problem, men should do better, and they should do it because they are good, not because they deserve it, or they want thanks."

There is only so much you can expect any demographic to do counter to their own interests before they do what you see above, give up and say fuck it. You are now going to double down and place blame on (lets see if I remember this right) frustrated reluctant Harris voters?

DO YOU WANT TO BE GOVERNED BY A FASCIST? BECAUSE THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT. (did it)

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 1 points 1 day ago

You don’t, I do. Maybe it’s because similar language was used in an attempted assault against me today..

People deserve respect because of actions, not transactions.

[–] Cornelius_Wangenheim@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You mind linking me to that ad?

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 days ago (2 children)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OJbIMF8dTVA&pp=ygUQaGFycmlzIG1lbidzIGFkZA%3D%3D

[–] Cornelius_Wangenheim@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Idk, as a white guy, that's more cringe than offensive. Maybe that's because I live in the South and can pass for a redneck, but I hear some vile shit from those other white guys fairly often.

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago

Offensive isn't quite the word for it.

The part that bothers me is that the DNC couldn't put together genuine sounding messaging to men when American democracy itself hung in the balance. Dooming my nation because they absolutely couldn't bring themselves to drop the identity politics is a transgression I don't think I can ever forgive.

[–] SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee 6 points 2 days ago

"hey white dudes! .....no not you...the other white dudes."

[–] IzzyJ@lemmy.world -5 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Don't like those ads? Should've stopped proving them right. We will go to the grave blaming you and your ilk now

[–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

We will go to the grave blaming you and your ilk now

Weird hill to die on

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago

I'm envisioning a pit, rather than a hill? Probably full of quicklime?

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works -4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Those nakedly misandrist ads were brought to my attention after I cast my ballot.

I've never voted for a Republican in my life, but the Democrats will have to actually earn my vote if they ever run a candidate again, they may no longer expect me.

Blame me as much as you want, you're going to anyway. I'm the bad guy even when voting your way so what'sthe point? Those who cannot bring themselves to speak to me with respect to literally save their lives can die as mad as they want.

[–] Snapz@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

"Look what you made me do!" just dripping...

Maybe work on having some established personal principles and some backbone? Maybe less wielding your vote as a little golden cudgel over people's heads? Why the fuck does your vote for a complex full administration of people including court appointees that will serve long terms as they all pursue at least four years worth of basic, roll up the sleeves and work day to day policy, all hinge on one targeted ad that hurts your feefees?

And studies have shown that people who casually drop the word "misandrist" have videos from matt walsh and nick fuentes in their YouTube watch history arguing that the age of consent is too high.

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

See what I mean?

I'm going to get screamed at like I'm the bad guy ANYWAY. There is no winning to be done here. I'm not voting for a party that is pro woman ever again. I'm done voting against my own interests for people who hate me. It's all I've done my entire adult life. No more.

[–] Snapz@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

"I'm done voting against my own interests" [votes republican]

Showing your ass there, bud.

And you haven't had an "entire adult life". Judging by the way you speak, you're either a 14 year old boy or you're not even in America.

"I was totally gonna not be a piece of shit, too. You blew it everyone! You could have had ME on your side."

[–] IzzyJ@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I take it you dont much care WHY misandey is on the rise

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works -4 points 2 days ago

Not even a little.