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plspls_pls_ stop calling each other fascists or astroturfers unless you have a thorough understanding of the uncommitted movement and what u.s. primaries are. there is so much blatant misunderstanding and misinfo going on it’s bad.
edit: if any loser dares call for an uncommitted vote in the general election? i will kick them in the balls (gender neutral) (in minecraft)
"An uncommitted movement will not be called for the general"
Okay, but what if I direct you to people calling for exactly that.
please do so and i’ll tell them to kick rocks.
(you can’t even vote uncommitted in the general afaik it’s not even an option)
one should direct criticism to those doing the bad thing, not the ones with vague aesthetics of the bad thing when viewed through a bad-faith lens.
please do so and i’ll tell them to kick rocks.
Unironically I'm happy to hear this.
(you can’t even vote uncommitted in the general afaik it’s not even an option)
Some states allow write-ins for the General.
yay!
and yeah, but write-ins are quite distinct from an uncommitted vote.
in an earlier thread someone compared the general to the trolley problem, with a vote for Biden being the lesser of two evils. at the same time, i view the uncommitted movement as a way of trying to get as many people untied from the Biden track as possible.
It is clear within the US that the uncommitted movement is grossly misunderstood outside of the people who care to engage with anti-genocide protest efforts. Because the main stream media did not cover it effectively up to the primary election and barely covered it after.
It is also clear that people from other countries do not understand the US primary system at all.
For Democrats, voter turn out is what matters. And that the “uncommitted” vote does not beat Biden. The uncommitted vote will not beat Biden since no news orgs covered it well so few know about it unless previously involved in anti-genocide efforts. Only Democrats can vote in the US Democrat primary, so high primary turnout shows how many democrats are willing to vote for Biden come election AND the uncommitted vote shows an easy tally of how many people were moved enough to discover the uncommitted vote movement and take part to support ending the genocide of the Palestinians.
If you see actual astroturfing, fascists-in-leftist-clothing calling for an uncommitted vote in the general, tell them to “fuck off tankie”.
In the US general election there will be no “uncommitted” option, showing that they are out-of-state fascists. Tell them to eat shit loudly and do not engage further with the fascies.
The US general election is serious as the republican challenger is the fascist bitch who tried to overthrow the government. But the genocide of the Palestinians is also serious, they’re actually dying by the thousands and after you die you’re dead it’s donezo, and anyone should be able to realize that that’s horrendous
Only Democrats can vote in the US Democrat primary,
This is not true. There are multiple states that allow voting in the primary of a party to which you are not registered. You just can't vote in both primaries.
God what the fuck is this comment. Donezo? Can you not make a genocide into tryin to be cute or whatever tf this is
Fuck Biden. Committed leftists / socialists / communists are not gonna hand wring about one president over another. I haven't voted since Obama 2012, no plans to start anytime soon. Electoralism will not save us and I'm tired of hearing the lesser of two evils is the solution for the last, idunno 50 years? Unless a candidate were to stop all weapon sales to Israel (never gonna happen), it's not worth all this song and dance bullshit
If you don’t vote, I don’t care, I say donezo on the reg and will say it again. Doesn’t change that Palestinians are dying by the thousands
Giving up is worthless, especially when one evil will ensure everyone in the LGBTQ+ sphere will die at some point in the near future and one won’t. Look inside yourself from an ethical perspective - if you can make some positive change, do it. Especially if it costs you nothing but gets trans people everything
You're saying this to a gay guy who works around trumpers in a factory.
Trump being president doesn't mean the gays will be rounded up into camps or something. I hate when people play this card that we're all gonna get fucking murdered and it's my fault for not voting blue, like what? It's apparent that it's playing on emotions to use LGBT people as some weird guilt trip and it's honestly pretty gross. I can take care of myself and my partner and our home just fine thanks. And I feel no differently safety wise whether it's a Republican or Democrat in office.
Trans people are at risk right now, states that ban transitioning will kill them. Gay people were at risk years ago but decades of voting for politicians that support peoples’ rights have allowed you to live and be out now. I am glad you have the rights you deserve and will not lose them in a year, but trans people are losing rights they deserve now. Not to mention abortion rights have been lost that are deserved well.
But voting got justices in place to enact rulings that decriminalized sodomy in 2003. Literally it was illegal to be gay in a bunch of states prior to 2003. Just as not voting let Trump install justices that removed abortion access.
Your right to a same-sex marriage (2015 ruling, very recent, only 36/50 states allowed same-sex marriage prior to that ruling and of course after 2003) and even being with someone of the same-sex (2003 ruling) are both Supreme Court rulings that can easily be repealed just as Roe v Wade was. I want everyone’s right to love who they want to be enshrined in the constitution, but until it is same-sex relationships are somewhat vulnerable. Voting and political action are the only way to enable your rights to remain forever. And voting is ez pz you just tick a few boxes for the person that doesn’t want to kill trans people.
You are correct; your life will continue whether or not you vote. But the quality of life is greatly impacted by the will of the people, which is gauged through voting. And the quality of life of other groups (people transitioning) are in danger right now
Wise words and much respect, comrade glizzyguzzler.
Could you pull the ladder up behind you any harder?
Must be nice to live such a privileged life.
Uncritical identitarian ideologues are the bane of all movements. You're committed to the identity of being a leftist/socialist/communist rather than the ideology, just like the Christian fascists that explicitly ignore every good idea in the Bible in favor of the worst ideas.
Over time, many supposed Marxists have decided to ignore the best principles and goals outlined by the man himself. You instead favor what "works" to build a "committed" movement. Unfortunately, "committed" means committed to the identity, while things only "work" if they ensure the group's existence.
Accomplishing the stated goals of the group doesn't matter so long as it has a stable niche. It basically works by evolutionary logic, with accuracy and ethics only mattering if it helps the group survive. It becomes cultish, often explicitly so if there is centralized power.
The parallels between Christianity and Marxism become more clear with how they reference the texts written by their great leaders selectively, highlighting whatever fits their current agenda. The most counterintuitive part is that we don't think about ideas in the way that they actually behave, instead assuming they serve us.
People usually believe their own shit, but produce outcomes that look like sociopathic calculus. Liberals genuinely believe what they say about liberalism. Capitalists genuinely believe most of their nonsense arguments. It doesn't matter that social programs create stability, or that regulations often benefit the unwilling companies in the long run. The saying "we often attribute stupidity to malice" is inaccurate. We really attribute evolution to intelligence.
People with nonsense ideologies almost never disbelieve everything they say. Fascist leaders buy most of their own bullshit. You believe in your own flawed logic. I probably believe bullshit about something, so I keep an open mind.
If you don't think your voice matters in the ballot box, why do you assume it matters anywhere?
You may end up confronted with your ball-kicking obligation, especially if the GOP is consistent taking all opportunities to add more disinformation to the season. I'd guess whether such a disinformation program was successful might make the difference between a thousand scattered uncommitted write-in votes across the nation or 100,000 localized in battleground states.
The 2016 election remains fresh in my mind, in which Trump was so obviously a monster that we expected a landslide by Clinton. Yet somehow while everyone knew Trump was dangerous enough hated Clinton enough to take that risk that he won by the Electoral College while losing the popular vote, and boy, the US is jolly sorry we let that happen, but not sorry enough to change it, even though we were pretty jolly sorry for letting George W. Bush steal the election from Gore in 2000, via a SCOTUS ruling that even warns don't use this to set future precedents ( NARRATOR: Bush v. Gore, 531 U.S. 98 (2000) has been used to set precedent or justify opinions in later SCOTUS rulings. )
US voters are imbiciles. They're ignorant. They can't operate their voting materials correctly. They get confused and suppressed. And these factors can sometimes be used to change the course of elections.
In 2024, our election is about one thing:
That's where we are in the US. It's our only choice. Trump may not invade Poland and France, but he will quit NATO, and he will start interning non-whites and sending ICE to lock people up in detention centers. Some people think it won't be as bad as the German Reich. I think Germany is going to be holding the US' beer.
It's madness, but we really have no choice but to put Democrats in office. In the meantime, regarding the genocide in Palestine, by all means crab at your representatives and senators (state and US). Block traffic. Blow up pipelines. Tell young people the risks of joining military service. (Check your counter-recruitment groups for talking points and scary stories.) Join your local mutual aid organization. Raise all kinds of Hell.
But the election, despite what it is supposed to be, is not where members of the public gets to express itself...except for the one issue of whether or not we let the Republican party take over the US permanently.
So you have no choice for this election. It's sad, but it seems to be what it is. But what then?
If Biden is elected again, what will happen next term? You hope trump will die or finally end in prison? How long will you keep fascism at bay like this? How is it that there is half a year left before the election and you're already in this dire situation?
The uncommitted movement will, in fact, be called for the general election - by assholes who just want Biden to lose.
You can ignore them. But they will be there. And the mouth noises they make will be based on sincere and reasonable criticism.
The thing about objecting 'we can't do [blank] because conservatives will abuse it in bad faith' is, conservatives will absofuckinglutely abuse [blank] in bad faith. Probably whether or not we do it. That part of the objection is real - even if we should still do [blank]. We can only do [blank] in spite of them.
Fine for people to voted uncommitted but jot sure why we don't see more people voting in the republican primary to throw trump off balance.
Because they genuinely love him. He's their god emperor.
Because I refuse to register as a Republican for any reason.
Assuming I'm understanding correctly, only a few states allow people to vote in a primary for a party that they're not registered as. Honestly, I'm not sure why any states still allow that, because I wouldn't want any registered Republicans voting in the Democratic primary any more than the other way around.
His mind is capable of speaking up to a third grade level. The people in favor of Trump understand him clearly.
AN UNCOMMITTED MOVEMENT WILL NOT BE CALLED FOR THE GENERAL ELECTION, REGARDLESS OF THE RESULT OF THE PRIMARY.
First off, it better not. If you think "Genocide Joe" is bad for palestine, try "Bloodbath drumpf"... I mean, maybe it is better to die violently and fast than slowly? But either way, whatever the pro-palestine movement is after, the democrats are their best choice, and by far. The alternative not only got stronger ties with the netanyahu government, but also a much lower overall IQ, zero consideration for legislation, international agreements, humanitarian matters, and democracy in general (which they have literally confused with the opposition party, for decades by now). You might not like biden, but from a humanitarian PoV, he is orders of magnitude better than anyone the GoP might select (and especially more so if it is drumpf).
Second off, I get that people are trying to "send a message", but if it changes nothing aside from vanity numbers, it will have absolutely zero impact. The impact was "voting for Bernie", and that is about 8 years too late now.
And here I was thinking the uncommited movement meant something might be done. If you are still calling for Biden, then why even bother voting uncommitted? Why pretend to dissent if you'll fall in line when it matters?
To send a message in the primary, and avoid a Trump win in the general.
Is that not obvious?
The incumbent always sweeps
thorough understanding of the uncommitted movement and what u.s. primaries are. there is so much blatant misunderstanding and misinfo going on it’s bad.
yeah I could see this EXCEPT the rhetoric used isn't likely to be forgotten - labeling him Genocide Joe is just gonna evaporate huh?
This movement is bullshit FUD sprayed right out of the GOP, believe it at your peril. And note that these same fuckwits always attack Biden, but never seem to go after trump, even tho 'it's just the primaries bro'.
tell that to trump
the incumbent always sweeps in the primary. please fReaking learn to read and digest the post like the rest of us before you type your hate comment dawg please please please 🙏 😭
i could see this except…
i don’t stand by the genocide joe nickname. i do stand by those who do what they can to stop children from starving.
this movement is bullshit FUD
this “bullshit” is doing the bare minimum to get a fucking genocide to end. call it a mistake, fine, call it a miscalculation, fine. stop calling it fascism, FUD, or astroturfing and learn to think for just a half a second that someone might have empathy for human suffering.
If people commit to it in the primaries then the demonization will carry to the general. But I suppose people aren’t familiar with voter apathy
If somebody commits to it in the primary, then their mind is already made up. It sounds like you're putting the cart before the horse here. People are voting uncommitted because of how they feel about Biden; their feelings about Biden aren't changing because they vote uncommitted.
This is actually good for Biden, because he can check the pulse of the electorate going into the general election. Polling data, as we know by now, is notoriously unreliable. This is a way to get a message to Biden about what's important to his voter base. Without this information, people might not show up to vote, and he might have no idea why.
The problem is that Biden knows that all of these people will vote for him anyways in the general election, so he doesn't care.
This kind of post is exactly how Trump is going to be elected to the Supreme Court, so he can grant himself immunity. You should be ashamed of yourself.
top tier comment
Really just gonna tell on yourself like that, huh?
Idk if it’s even possible to vote uncommitted in the general, but I’m voting psl.
i know you probably hear this a lot, but i encourage you not to do so. until we have ranked choice voting, voting for the democrat candidate in the general will always be a needed form of harm reduction, especially if you live in a swing state.
others are probably better at expressing this than i, so i’ll leave it at that. :)
Fuck bottoming for Biden and Trump. If you vote Biden, you're enabling genocide. Kind regards, rest of the world.
A moral dilemma doesn't go away if you close your eyes.
Forgive me if, when presented with the trolley problem and the person on track b would die anyways if I did not pull the lever, if I pulled that lever instead of ignoring everything and/or jumping off a cliff. The political situation is bleak here, and the machine is designed to keep Americans placated, disenfranchised, and generally apathetic. We don't have coalition voting. We don't have ranked choice, and it's even banned in certain states! If there's a proper alternative to Biden in this country, that information has to be disseminated to hundreds of millions and convince them to change their vote. It's possible that someone could come along but they'd have to work fast I sure as hell don't see anyone with that kind of rallying power. Do you have any suggestions on who I should vote for?.. Because my choice is first and foremost in the interest of overall harm reduction in whatever practical terms that can actually be accomplished in this country.
Declining to vote in this system is, effectively, silently endorsing whoever gets in; it signals that you're ok with everything, or at least it gets interpreted that way by politicians 100x more than any sort of "protest" effect you think not voting will achieve. Literally if you don't vote for a politician why should they care what the fuck you think? One party doesn't even want us voting at all because it means they can give less of a fuck about us! Frankly, I don't want to see the orange man in office again, and he will be worse than even self-professed Zionist Joe on matters pertaining to the rest of the world. Again, I'm open to an alternative if you can give me one that's not sticking my head in the sand or some fetishistic "revolution" way too many people pine for without having a single ounce of solidarity in their real lives.
What if you don't vote for Biden, what happens then?
Drumft will turn it into genocide+
Then every Tennessee elector still votes for Trump.
If you don't vote for Biden, you're okay with a Trump victory.
Kind regards, sane people.
Dear rest of the world, why haven't you stopped it? And don't say anything about a nonbinding UN resolution.