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Well the best solution is probably nuclear meeting the base load while solar helps with daytime peaks.
But otherwise pumped storage has promise. Have 2 reservoirs at different elevations connected by a turbine and pumps. When there is excess power durning the day, pump water to the upper reservoir. At night, let the water flow by gravity to the lower reservoir through a turbine and make power.
Transoceanic power transmission is just too expensive.
I'll assume you are unfamiliar with the size of Singapore and the geography of the Northern Territory.
Singapore lacks the space for pumped storage. Singapore's density is 8592 per square kilometre. Compare this to India at only 481 or the US at 37.
The Northern Territory in Australia is extremely flat and extremely arid, as such it lacks the topography to build water storage and the water required for it.
I doubt Singapore could meet its energy needs from solar even if every square centimeter was covered in solar panels.
But the point is, the pumped storage could be elsewhere in SE Asia rather than trying to transfer power from the other side of the planet.
Look, so solution is perfect. It is stupid to say “well that whole idea should be thrown out because it won’t work here.” That’s no different from anti-solar people saying we shouldn’t have solar because of clouds.
That's possible. You will still need to have the generation somewhere, and if you are going solar then the Northern Territory is an ideal location as it has very little rain and abundance of sunshine.
I'm not suggesting your idea is invalidated by the example I give. I'm simply pointing out that in this example, transoceanic electrical transmission isn't a bad idea.
When all things are considered in this specific example. The infrastructure cost is outweighed by the impracticality of Singapore generating solar energy.
The only way I can make sense of Lurker's comment is:
maybe Lurker didn't realize my edits to the post came after some people's comments (my edits definitely came after your comment, derf). Lurker may have assumed you were dismissing the practicality of the Asia-Australia Power Link, mentioned in my edit but not in the original post.
Assuming the above, this is a miscommunication.
Assuming anything else, Lurker's comment doesn't make that much sense.
I was referring to the comment that transoceanic electrical transmission is too expensive and impractical.
In the case of the NT - Singapore project, it is probably the most practical and cost effective option IF solar is the way they want to go.
Ahhh... okay, yeah. That also makes sense.
I know very little about this technology, so is there a theoretical maximum height to these water pump systems being used here? Could they not just build skyscraper sized towers of water?
They could, but that is expensive and a large tower doesn't hold much water when compared to a dam. Also the force of that water would require an extremely strong structure.
Most of the water battery solutions use natural formations to contain the water at higher elevations for storage.
Probably not. Energy storage is probably the better idea. Check out this link and scroll down to this sections on types of grid energy storage. https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-tech/sustainable/grid-energy-storage.htm
Oh thanks for the link! This is a good one. According to the article we're already using:
And the article ends with,
"The price of storage is coming down. The price of solving the problems in other ways is going up. Pretty soon, these prices are going to cross," notes Boyes, suggesting cost could spur the addition of storage to the grid.
Are those storage measures being used at scale? IIRC there's large-scale battery storage in Australia, but I don't know what is being done elsewhere.
I believe the article is arguing that we need to scale them up. Although: it mentions that the Tennessee Valley Authority already uses pumped hydroelectric storage at the foot of Raccoon Mountain (side-note, I know nothing about Tennessee, but somehow naming a mountain "Raccoon Mountain" confirms all of my stereotypes about the state), to supplement its grid during low-production hours.
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The distance is simply too great, based on what I could find you can only transmit power for about 300 miles without it getting too costly. Sometimes it goes up to 450 miles and some islands do get power remotely.
But the distance of the Atlantic is around 3310 miles coast to coast if you want to transfer power between the US and Europe.. so that's out of the question. It's much more economic to use solar during the day and use batteries (any sort, for example in Austria we pump water up the mountain in some places) for the night.
Easy: build islands every 300 miles across the Atlantic
Yeah, the 450 mile one -- the North Sea Link -- is the "longest subsea interconnector in the world."
I think over land, you can manage longer distances (China's transmission projects go thousands of miles), but even those aren't going the full 3310 miles it would take to cross the Atlantic.
Obviously you would need plenty of extra solar power for this but Hydroelectric dams are giant batteries when run in reverse. Charge them up with extra solar power and then use the energy at night
Used EV batteries as power packs tied to the grid. Some neighborhoods are already getting these. They also work well as backup power when the grid goes down.
I think grid level or neighborhood level backup power is a great way to shore up the power supply without putting in bigger wires. Keep them topped up with off-peak grid power or local solar, and draw on them to offset the peaks as well as fill in for peer outages (assuming proper disconnect is installed for safety of the workers fixing power lines etc).
One thing for long range electric hauling is high voltage DC lines, or so I learned when I worked for EDF/RTE
400.000+ volt DC.
I do not know the theory behind it though, and IIRC its for Europe and land.
HVDC is also used to connect the North Island of New Zealand to the South Island, since much power generation occurs in the South island but more consumption happens in the North.
Source: am kiwi, also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC_Inter-Island
There will likely be lots of wind energy too which could alleviate the solar problem, though this is based on luck. Passed that the ideal solution is nuclear energy and in the future fission based reactors if they are economically viable.
What's most feasible today in most places would be burning gas. I know it's not perfect and still emits plenty of CO2 but the plants are much faster, cheaper and easier to build than nuclear, and gas burns much cleaner than coal or oil. Plus it can be stored and transported fairly efficiently by LNG container ships.
Massive fusion reactions on Luna to turn her into a second sun. Twice the solar power, and less tides!
Wait! Never mind. I should have done a simple web search before posting this question.
I found a video on it.
England already has two oversea electric cables that connect it to France on the one side and Scandinavia on the other. They have more than paid for themselves already, indicating that this a solution already being implemented in parts of the world... At least for short distances.
Yeah, it's best to do some searches before asking here. In my experience, Lemmy isn't nearly as strict on that as the other website.
That said, R.J. Gumby was able to give a fantastic link about the storage technology currently in use.
I'm glad you're getting good results! It is interesting to see someone learning in real time through edits and comments. Yay internet!
