this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2023
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Immigrants to Canada are increasingly leaving this country for opportunities elsewhere, according to a study(opens in a new tab) conducted by the Institute for Canadian Citizenship and the Conference Board of Canada.

In fact, the number of immigrants who left Canada rose by 31 per cent above the national average(opens in a new tab) in 2017 and 2019.

According to the study, factors that influence onward migration include economic integration, a sense of belonging, racism, homeownership, or a lack thereof, and economic opportunities in other countries, the report revealed.

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[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 47 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Canada has become a car culture nation, I'm living abroad right now so that I can be a pedestrian without fearing for my life.

[–] 1bluepixel@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The state of public transport in Montreal makes me so angry. This city used to be an examplar of public transit.

[–] BedSharkPal@lemmy.ca 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And I'm over here in Ottawa looking at you guys as the gold standard.

[–] Mereo@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Same here. Everytime I go to MontrΓ©al, I'm amazed by their transit.

[–] Oderus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Lived in Montreal for 9 years and now live in Calgary. I weep when I think of Montreal's transit vs. Calgary's transit.

[–] otter@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago

I haven't tried enough of the transit outside of Metro Van

How would Montreal compare to transit here (for those that tried both)

[–] Ryan213@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh good, maybe this will help with the housing crisis. Lol

But in seriousness, I know a few people who've moved to the US for better pay. Not worth it for me but I can see why people move.

[–] Numpty@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm planning to move. I was born in Canada. I worked overseas for several years. I came back to Canada and I'm leaving again. Hopefully permanently. Better pay is definitely one aspect (although it'd take 10x increase to get me to move to the USA), but it's not the only one. Quality of life is another MAJOR point that Canadians miss out on in a big way. Yeah you get a bigger home... and a fancy big truck... but to get that, you work yourself to death, you pay insane prices for things, and you have to live with stroads...

[–] Tat@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah tell all of us so we can go too 🀣🀣

[–] Peanutbjelly@sopuli.xyz 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"What we found is a withering, uncertain and anti-working class government, happy to sell promises it never intended on keeping"

I think this and the "hard work does not correlate with rewards" seem to be apt.

Many are brought over with flowery words hiding the fact that they will be competing with an already struggling working class.

Everybody I know thinks trying to raise a kid right now is not only unfeasable, but unethical. The couple working class people I know who had kids regardless are in debt and struggling despite working as much as they can.

Then the newspapers post articles like "why are selfish lazy millennials choosing not to obtain things like homes and cars, or attempting to have children."

It's frustrating and disgusting. Especially when you see things like the complete failure of antitrust. Big surprise that Rogers just locked out hundreds of old Shaw union workers.

There's something terribly wrong with the power imbalance, and this is more evidence to throw on the depressingly obvious pile.

[–] Dearche@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's especially bad when those same newspapers also write articles about how most millennials are living paycheck to paycheck, and a single unexpected $1000 expense is enough to bankrupt them.

I can't count on how many people I've seen who's become borderline alcoholics as they can't handle life between work and bills without a steady supply. I live and work in relatively better off parts of Toronto, yet I see dozens of people who are homeless or dealing with serious psychiatrics problems. Seeing someone begging on the streets or trains has become almost a daily occurrence despite it having been quite rare a decade ago. Not to mention all those who sleep on the trains and buses rather than trying to get anywhere.

We as a country have been steered the wrong way for a good decade now, and every measurement I've seen regarding the human life index, happiness, international reputation, etc, have all pointed that out. Canada isn't the bastion of freedom and equality that it used to be. Virtually all our leaders on every level have failed the population, including the opposition.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We as a country have been steered the wrong way for a good decade now,

It's been in motion for a lot longer than that.

[–] Oderus@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

Glad you clarified. That should make things easier to fix now.

[–] girlfreddy@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"We are thus compelled to return to a society where taxes lead to tangible public services, healthcare is a given right, not a privilege and where schools are havens of learning, unmarred by the pervasive reach of politics."

Canada's gleaming palace of prosperity is actually a slum run by greedy politicians and hedge funds who just want to steal everyone's money for themselves.

Born and bred in Canada, but if I could afford it I'd head to Europe as well.

[–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Sounds like maplewashing still works. Immigrants are drawn to Canada, only to discover it ain't all that.

I would love to move back home, but, as others have mentioned, the prices and healthcare situation are bitter pills... Also, finding a decent job. I know someone who went from making 140k as an escalation manager for an international IT company, to beng laid off, to spending 7 months job hunting, to finally working as a fry cook just to pay rent.

[–] SchizoDenji@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago

The only reason why Canada seems like a good option is because US is so fucked that it makes Canada look better.

[–] Hector@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As an immigrant, I can concur. What I thought Canada would be and what it turned out to be are very different things. I'm not happy with the financial stress nor with how my international experience is not taken into consideration when applying to jobs. I am an undesirable candidate. I was lucky enough to find a job that is somewhat similar to what I used to do but my partner is restarting his career just to make money. At the end of the day, we barely make ends meet because rent is so expensive. Just to get an apartment we had to go through hell because we have no credit score and we couldnt afford to pay 6-12 months in advance. I generally felt unwelcomed.

[–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago

This is what I fear about returning to Canada. It is my home, but all of my post-uni work experience is abroad. I have no credit score in Canada, just a student loan that I did pay back. I own nothing there, cannot vote either... I know now that there are systems that work better. My father is 72 and still works 16 hours a day, 6 days a week! He only takes off Christmas day. I get 5 weeks paid vacation, paternity leave, bonuses, paid training, 100% free and nearly immediate health care---I had a CT scan the other week THE SAME DAY I was told to get one---meal vouchers, free public transport, etc. I don't make a lot of money, but I also only work 33 hours per week for 36 weeks of the year and my wife works about 20. We make ends meet and have zero debt. I don't think I could have the same lifestyle in Canada as I do here... But I sure do miss the trees and snow and nature and "going out for a rip, eh"

[–] zephyreks@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Canada got its key industries stripped away by the US (Boeing to Bombardier) and China (Huawei to Nortel). Now? All the jobs are fleeing South of the border and people are fleeing with it.

At least Huawei still employs a fuck ton of Canadian tech workers and is rapidly expanding. Huawei is footing the bill for a ton of big tech conferences in Canada. They're sponsoring a bunch of projects for Canadian undergraduate engineering students. They're hiring a sizable chunk of the graduates from Canadian universities in their focus areas and are happy to foot the bill for technical training. Frankly, Huawei is doing a better job of creating and keeping Canadian talent within Canada than most Canadian companies. They relinquished any IP control over research done in conjunction with Canadian universities.

Meanwhile, Microsoft uses it's Canadian offices as visa waiting rooms before shipping them off to the US.

[–] Poutinetown@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Meanwhile, Microsoft uses it’s Canadian offices as visa waiting rooms before shipping them off to the US.

Microsoft's game division includes Canadian studios like The Coalition and Compulsion Games. The latter literally relied on being acquired by Xbox in order to publish their 2nd (and 1st major) game, now they have grown from 40 to 80 since the game was published. Those studios are still located in where they were founded even after acquisition. In general, Microsoft has a hands-off approach with the studios, allowing them more freedom to develop games.

Sure, the game industry has its own problems and salary issues, which is something people in the industry are trying to improve, but at least the creative & technical talent stays here in Canada rather than being relocated, and many people can work in game studios for a few years before easily moving into other areas of software development.

[–] zephyreks@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, you're right about that, my bad.

I was thinking more in terms of the core tech teams - there's a decent EA presence here as well.

[–] Poutinetown@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah it's unfortunate they don't have more core development in Vancouver. For instance, a major part of the Chrome team (and previously Stadia) was in Montreal. Microsoft should have been doing something similar in Vancouver (esp. considering the time zone too).

[–] slowbyrne@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

And leaked docs show the UCP is planning on pushing more of Alberta's healthcare to wealthcare. Good times, good times. My wife and I (born and raised in Canada) actively talk about the ongoing degradation of Canada and we are seriously considering moving to Europe in the next 5-10yrs.

[–] Frederic@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It has always been like that, there's 50'000 French immigrants per year coming in QuΓ©bec. 50% leave the first year, 40 other % leave in the first 10 years. So after 10 years there's only 10%, 5000 people, staying, half of them will leave to retreat in France.

[–] SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

These are astonishing numbers. Do you have a source for this?

[–] Frederic@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I must have had a 10x factor, no way there is 50k French people every year, 5000 sounds more normal. But the 50% of French immigrants going back to France in the first year, I saw it with my eyes, same for most of the remaining ones going back in the first 10 years.

There was a lot of internet forums years ago about french immigration, they about all disappeared :-/