this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2025
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331
A 2020 law banning plastic bags in Vermont has nearly eliminated their use in the state (www.burlingtonfreepress.com)
submitted 17 hours ago by Davriellelouna@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
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[–] TauZero@mander.xyz 1 points 3 minutes ago

New York City has also banned plastic bags since 2020. I was skeptical about the ban at first, because by measure of material weight, bags are but a small fraction of plastic waste. Thin film is just too efficient in terms of use-per-weight ratio. I also thought anyone who didn't want to use plastic bags already had the option to bring their own reusable bags with them.

My newfound appreciation for the ban is that not only does it divert the use of plastic material, but it forces a change in the public perception around plastic use itself. Sure, you could bring your own bags, but it felt awkward because no one else did. You felt like you were inconveniencing the cashiers and other shoppers by breaking the routine, as if you were asking for special treatment. But now it's perfectly normal! You want to carry that bag of potatoes in your arms without an external bag? Go right ahead. You want to run home carrying a jug of milk dripping condensation on the pavement? Doesn't make you look like a crazy person! All thanks to the ban. Single action by the government on behalf of the collective has achieved what collective action by many single individuals could not have.

[–] Zomg@lemmy.world 3 points 1 hour ago

Good on you Vermont, proud of you

[–] drool@lemmy.catsp.it 1 points 6 hours ago

On scroll by, the bags in the picture look like people in a convertible.

[–] fitgse@sh.itjust.works 27 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

And in Alabama, when the city of Birmingham banned plastic bags, the state turned around and made a law that banning plastic bags was not allowed 🤦‍♀️

[–] Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

"Alabama: Boldly refusing to accept diversity and the inevitable since 1819."

  • John Oliver

(I wonder how bad the brain drain is at this point)

[–] j0ester@lemmy.world 1 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

But at least you can marry your cousin. First cousins!

[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 13 minutes ago

Explains a lot, tbh

[–] testfactor@lemmy.world 29 points 17 hours ago (4 children)

I just wish more places put handles on the paper bags.

I don't mind a paper bag, but I hate having to, like, roll the top to carry it. Just give me some handles. Even a reinforced hole cut in the bag. Anything.

[–] scops@reddthat.com 19 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Would it be feasible to bring your own bags? I picked up a cheap 10 pack of fabric bags and they are sturdy enough I can usually fit a week's worth of groceries in two or three of them

[–] KnitWit@lemmy.world 6 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Reusable bags. Bonus that you can find something that checks all your boxes and its all yours. Paper bags should be last resort and they should charge 10c to discourage their use.

[–] testfactor@lemmy.world -1 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

I'd happily pay $1/paper bag with handles, just for the convenience. That's about what it's worth to me.

I'm absentminded as all hell, and I'm not gonna remember to bring an armful of bags into the grocery store with me. And then, if I'm not using a cart, I gotta carry them around? Nah.

I mean, it's a super first world problem, and not a big deal at all in the grand scheme of things. But in all honesty I'd rather just pay $1/paper bag than have to deal with it.

[–] KnitWit@lemmy.world 4 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

Damn, that hurts me to read haha. Like, I get the absent mindedness thing, but it’s a ridiculously easy step that if all 330 million people in the US (I assume that is also where you are from, sorry if I’m wrong) were to stop then it would actually have a tangible effect on resource consumption. Obviously that isn’t going to solve all of our problems, but the whole idea of ‘whatever, this is slightly more convenient’ should instead be ‘eh, it’s not that much of a hassle.’ I think that’s fully the fault of 100 years of that mindset being pushed down our throats in the form of CONSUME, but we’ve got to break free of it if there’s ever going to be a chance.

[–] testfactor@lemmy.world 0 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

I'd be really interested to see a quantitative analysis of how much difference it would make if all 330mil of us swapped to renewable bags.

My gut is that paper bags are pretty clean overall, and that grocery bags are a tiny fraction of paper usage in the US. But I'd be really interested to be proven wrong.

[–] KnitWit@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

My quick search keeps popping up the statistic of 14 million trees for 10 billion paper bags used annually in the US, but in 1999 so I’m sure that is higher. You’ve also got to consider the high energy usage and large environmental concerns of paper mills. I don’t know if you’ve ever been near a paper mill, but they’re known for their air pollution, they make entire towns stink.

This stat taken from http://www.forestecologynetwork.org/climate_change/plastic_or_paper.html

ENERGY TO PRODUCE BAG ORIGINALLY (BTUs) Safeway Plastic Bags: 594 BTUs Safeway Paper Bags: 2511 BTUs (Source: 1989 Plastic Recycling Directory, Society of Plastics Industry.)

[–] testfactor@lemmy.world 1 points 48 minutes ago (1 children)

I do think the BTUs portion is less concerning in the greater context. Both 600 and 2500 are negligible compared to, say, my daily commute, or a single plane trip, or basically any other activity that requires energy.

But the first part is kinda interesting. Doing some super sloppy back of the napkin math, I think that makes paper shopping bags about 6.5% of all paper products made in the US. Paper products account for around 50% of all wood products in the US, so call it just over 3% of total wood use (which may have gone up some due to increased prevalence of paper lately.)

Which isn't nothing for sure. I would have guessed lower. I do think it may be overstating it to say we'd see a huge shift if everyone started using reusable bags overnight. A 3% drop in timber harvesting would be good, but not world changing I would think. But not insignificant either.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 1 points 21 minutes ago

The timber part is no big deal - it’s all farmed trees and sawmill waste product. The water and energy use to make them, store them, ship them is more significant.

[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 0 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

I dunno not being willing to even carry bags, things that are literally made for carrying, kinda seems like a you problem rather than a first world problem. Like there's the regular biases toward convenience we all have and there's Jesus fucking Christ how are you this incapable of tolerating the most minor of tasks.

You know how you handle the onerous task of carrying a bag while shopping? You put the bags in the basket with everything else, put the food in the bags themselves, or just loop the handle over your shoulder.

[–] testfactor@lemmy.world 1 points 41 minutes ago

I think you're overstating my position. It's not that I'm "not willing to carry bags." It's that I've weighed the options and decided that the provided disposable bags are more convenient, so I'm just gonna do that. I'm unconvinced that switching would do much beyond slightly inconvenience me.

And you say it's just a "me problem," but a quick and unverified Google search says that 70% of people in the US don't use reusable bags (and 57% worldwide). So it seems like it's not so much a "me problem" as a "literal majority of the world" problem. Though I'm sure it probably felt good to attack me personally, as that gives you someone to lash out at.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 4 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

I have never in my life found a paper bag with handles that will hold groceries. I'd need easily twice as many to hold all my groceries vs my reusable ones.

[–] Hobo@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago

Have you ever shopped at a Trader Joes? Those paper bags are by far the best paper bags that I've ever used, and can carry about as much as my reusable ones.

[–] CidVicious@sh.itjust.works 8 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

As someone who frequently shops on their bike, lack of handles on paper bags can be the difference between me being able to bring things home or not. I can hang a plastic bag off of the handle bars or over my shoulder if I need to. A paper bag without handles is going to leave me pretty screwed if I don't currently have panniers with me.

[–] curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 11 hours ago

Rack and some bungee used to be my way to do it.

Hated it every time.

[–] RedditIsDeddit@lemmy.world 31 points 17 hours ago

I'm starting to think Vermont is pretty awesome

[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 4 points 11 hours ago

But but but I was told that it would result in a plastic bag gray market or something.

[–] Ebby@lemmy.ssba.com 14 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Meanwhile our plastic bag tax has pretty much eliminated paper bags and raked in fortunes in profits on plastic bags.

[–] KnitWit@lemmy.world 3 points 14 hours ago

Yeah, that’s why plastic shouldn’t be an option. Paper bag tax for last resort only in my opinion.

[–] ilovededyoupiggy@sh.itjust.works 8 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

I mean, yeah, that's how bans work.

[–] ThunderWhiskers@lemmy.world 7 points 15 hours ago

The news is that it did in fact work. You may think it's very clever to point out the obvious effect, but stupid people (republicans) need to hear over and over again that these programs have a positive effect and aren't just intended to impinge on their freedumbs.

[–] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works 2 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

NJ got rid of them a few years back. My trashcans have had the sane liners since then.

[–] TauZero@mander.xyz 1 points 23 minutes ago

For trash I'm still using plastic bags I hoarded in anticipation of our ban in NYC 5 years ago.

[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 0 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

We can ban a bag successfully but we can't ban a gun?

[–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 1 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

"It's mah rite!"

[–] iopq@lemmy.world 3 points 6 hours ago

Unironically, yes, it's literally protected by the Constitution. Plastic bags are not