See what they need is a bard who raps. A bit if speed-rap and they'd be throwing out deadly cantrips like a human machine-gun
this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2025
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Bards aren't just "a talented musician" they literally use magic. They're basically wizards that went the liberal arts path in college.
Ha while you were Chaining Lightning and Disintegrating Polymorphs, I studied THE ARTS
don't call me when the Barbarians are at your Gates
It's odd saying it does decent damage. It's the least damaging cantrip. Not hating on it, but it's odd to say that lol.
I mean, just look at their example. Level 17+ for the math? Holy shiiiiiit. At levels 15+, you're basically living legends that are about to start conquering kingdoms singlehandedly and fighting gods. That's not "a talented musician," that's the dude who leads month long rave parties that brings in all the nobility's children and starts a religion that is then used with said children to start coups in the continental region.
Ignoring the actual rules and mechanics is basically step one in almost every "isn't this goofy" D&D anecdote.
Not only is it not "decent damage" (even the buff it got in 5.5 just brings it from "the worst" to "poor"), it's also not a subtle thing you can just drop on someone unsuspectingly.
Spellcasting for an attack is an obvious aggressive action, which means an initiative roll comes first to see if you even manage to get it off before they clock you. It's also not like everyone around just shrugs and lets you go about your business because all you did was hurl an insult. You attacked someone with an offensive spell, the response is exactly the same as if you threw a firebolt at them
The flavor of insulting someone to death is fun, I'll grant that, but there's nothing special about Vicious Mockery mechanically that makes it immune to initiative order or people noticing what you're doing.
"You unleash a string of insults laced with subtle enchantments at a creature you can see within range."
...its only component is verbal, and while it's not subtle casting it's fair to characterise as subtle casting; i'd argue for first-round surprise in the context of open dialog and in fact that's how we've played it at my tables...
It got buffed to a d6 in 5.5e
But then again, with this math they're talking about 5e, so your point stands
Plot twist, the dragon accepts your challenge and destroys you with 800 years worth of yo mama jokes.
I mean if I was a dragon that failed to kill a bard for 11 minutes I'd take care of it myself.
I can't imagine surviving 55 rounds of combat against a dragon. Are people thinking this is a video game or something where you can just simply not take damage from a dragon if you're skilled enough or something?
You might be able to find some cheese strat. One good trick is to use a Phantom Steed to constantly outrange your opponent. But Vicious Mockery doesn't have enough range to make that effective.
I'm sure someone can figure out a method, but Vicious Mockery isn't going to be the interesting part.
That's still applying video game logic though. Dragons are smart. They wouldn't just endlessly pursue you if they're taking chip damage. They'd fly away. They'd fly towards cities and destroy them to make you stop. The idea one would have contingencies in place isn't unheard of either, they're like evil geniuses.
yeah even for a hypothetical it's stretching the bounds of believability
Wall of force lasts 10 minutes, just saying
Would it fit? I suppose technically the rules say a gargantuan creature is 20 feet by 20 feet or larger, and you can make a ten foot radius sphere with Wall of Force.
But also, that would give it total cover, and Vicious Mockery does not grant itself an exception from that. Message is the only one I know of that does.
I love Tom Cardy with every ounce of my being. I assume that's what that link is lmao. But I found this BG3 animation for the song and it instantly became my favorite. Evidently the insane looking one in this isn't the Durge. It's Tav. The other Dragonborn looking terrified is the Durge which leads to my favorite comment on that. "The Durge may kill people but he just witnessed the most horrifying thing in existence. A perfectly normal DnD player."
The Gag with "15 days" and the hands kills me every time.
Ermmm actually ☝️🤓 you don't roll when casting Vicious Mockery, the target does, so the best case scenario for the caster would be the target rolling a natural 1.
I love this video, but I genuinely upset at ruining the story and not taking it seriously 😭
To be fair, player characters at level 17+ are basically walking deities, regardless of class.
We all know who Kendrick Lamar is and no we aren’t going to fuck with him.
3 comments are on this thread and each one has a different video for that Tom Cardy song.
I love it.
It is fantastic. He also does live music for a d&d podcast called dragon friends. It is recorded in front of an audience. They don't follow the rules super strictly, but it is entertaining.
What can I say? He’s a natural.
I legit killed an owlbear with vicious mockery (as in killing blow). Sticks and stones etcetc
Ursula from Little Mermaid.
I thought it made them suicide, least thats how i imagine it, like someone yo mama'd you so hard, you pull out and fall on your sword.
Imma start another bg3 run asap.
A cantrip that's as effective as "power word kill" on mundane folk? Use 55 times to kill a dragon? How did I miss this?
As a DM, I'd have to implement a house rule that every such insult must be unique, as it is magically bound to the target at that distinct moment in time. And that goes for failures as well as successes: each use burns that phrase forever. At the very least this goes if used repeatedly against the same target. Besides, a good bard should be able to cook up fresh material.
This is an absolutely insane take. Vicious Mockery is the the least damaging cantrip (or like bottom three). Further, it's a cantrip, something players are supposed to be able to easily without resource consumption. Expecting a player to come up with unique insults every time they cast this is stupid and exhausting. Also, the reason it's "as effective as power word kill on common folk" is because common folk are weak and meant to weak. They're not heroes.
Spell casters using cantrips is akin to fighters making normal attacks, swinging a sword.
Also, the reason it’s “as effective as power word kill on common folk” is because common folk are weak and meant to weak. They’re not heroes.
Fly swats are overpowered because they're as effective as a machine gun at killing flies.
It's important for others reading this that they realize a cat can kill a commoner in one attack. A magic user using magic shouldn't be shocking, even when that magic is flavored as an insult.
So are you going to nerf every class similarly?
Bard
Vicious Mockery: avg 10 / 55 casts
Cleric
Word of Radiance: avg 13.5 / 41 casts
Sacred flame: avg 18 / 31 casts
Druid
Produce Flame: avg 11 / 50 casts
Poison Spray: avg 22.5 / 25 casts
Sorcerer
Acid Splash: avg 10.5 / 52 casts
Warlock
Chill Touch: avg 11 / 50 casts
Wizard
Ray of Frost: avg 11 / 50 casts
Artificer
Thunderclap: avg 13.5 / 41 casts
The bard in my game killed Brenda Walsh from Beverly Hills 90210 with this cantrip.
I give up on gaming and am leaving to become a mountain hermit.