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'Gaming' keyboard that isn't mechanical? (lemmy.world)

submitted 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) by Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

27 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Heresy, right? I've had a mechanical for the last couple of years, and while it's served me well enough, I still don't like the feel or clickety-clack compared to a membrane switch - and my current one is the Razer Blackwidow Stealth w/ rubber o-rings added to the base of each key, which I think is as non-clackety as a mechanical gets.

Anyway, the Blackwidow is starting to have issues - F5 key died months ago, and lately it's been doing this annoying thing where I press a key and it registers the downstroke, but not the release, of the Tab and D keys until I pull it from its USB port and reinsert. It's time.

...but the initial search for a replacement all I'm seeing are either mechanical or mimicking mechanical (like a membrane switch but with the big blocky keys that mechanicals use).

My favorite keyboard 'feel' 100% is an oldschool laptop style keyboard. Like the IBM T60 - flat, light to the touch, and no dead space in between the keys like you see in a lot of today's laptops (the 'island' style... not a fan).

I don't think my entire wish-list exists in a single product, but what I'm after is:

That T60 style described above
Programmable keys (remap / macros)
Corded... unless cordless options have really improved in the last decade or so: I recall a noticeable delay, and constantly running out of battery.
Extra keys specifically for binding macros like the Blackwidow
Backlight. Low priority, and I don't give a shit about RGB (or aesthetics in general), but it is nice to be able to be able to see which key is which when the room is dark.

...is anything even kind-of like that on the market, or should I just shut up and get another mechanical?

top 27 comments

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[–] pheonixdown@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

If you actually just want a keyboard for typing words with rather than gaming, stop here.

Keyboards weren't designed with gaming in mind, the layout is terrible, from WASD wasting the ability of your pinky and ring finger to totally wasting your thumb, there's a ton of sideways or angled movement that's just a little awkward. Even 4 directional key movement is such a waste, you dedicate the 4 easiest to use keys, but only use 1-2 at a time, and if you do need 2, it costs an extra finger. If you want a key entry device tailor made for gaming, you need to look at the Azeron Cyborg. Each finger has ergonomic access to 5-6 different keys with only slight movement (you could reasonably press 2 at the same time with 1 finger), while the thumb has access to 3 buttons as well as a hall effect thumbstick (map your WASD to this), all bindable however you'd like, including macros. Angles and distances of the device are also highly adjustable, so it can fit YOUR hand.

This kind of device is, in my opinion, as much an improvement over a keyboard as a mouse is over a thumbstick.

Disclaimer: This is an honest review, other than as a happy customer, I'm unaffiliated with the company. This is not intended to replace a keyboard for typing purposes.

[–] Saucepain@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

How much of a learning curve is there with it? Is it actually feasible to type with?

[–] pheonixdown@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I was comfortable in less than a week for gaming, it doesn't have enough keys for typing.

[–] Saucepain@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Yeah I figured there weren't enough keys but couldn't tell if there was a workaround using layers or something.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 10 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

For the key style try looking for "chicklet keys." That's what I've always heard the more laptop-like, flat keys called.

But so many cheap keyboards like what Logitech sells for $10-20 have most everything else you want. Squishy membrane key feel, programmable macro buttons, wired... They're really just not usually lighted and the key roll-over can be quite low.

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (3 children)

key roll-over

I've heard people mention that issue with membranes. In a gaming context, the most I ever see myself hitting would be while sprinting diagonally (shift, W, A or D), jumping (space) and using an item or ability (1), for a total of 5 simultaneous key presses.

...is 5 within reason for the cheapies? ...and do any of them have supporting software that isn't shit? I had a Logitech gaming mouse a few years ago and writing macros on that trash was a nightmare.

[–] ezdrift@lemm.ee 1 points 1 day ago

As adrian mentioned, it can be hit and miss. On my lenovo laptop you can't press space when holding up + left arrows. Many other key combinations with 5+ keys work. For platformers it's a no go, so I'd always recommend something with N-key rollover to avoid weirdness.

[–] AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

I have this chromebook that has some weird keyboard setup where depending on the keys you're trying to press you might be able to press 7 or you might just be able to press two out of the three. IIRC your scenario probably would have worked fine, I think they probably gave it better abilities in that area of the keyboard.

Anyways, there's always autohotkey for setting up macros

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I never really use the macro stuff myself so I can't answer that very well. You can use AutoHotKey and not SetPoint though.

But the roll over thing is okay. The only games I've ever played where it was truly a problem were things like ARMA or other deep simulations with insanely complicated controls.

[–] Zak@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago (2 children)

My favorite keyboard ‘feel’ 100% is an oldschool laptop style keyboard. Like the IBM T60

You may be looking for the IBM SK-8845 Ultranav USB keyboard. They're long-discontinued, but I see several on Ebay.

Razer Blackwidow Stealth w/ rubber o-rings added to the base of each key, which I think is as non-clackety as a mechanical gets.

It isn't. A web search says this uses Cherry MX Brown switches, which are pretty average in terms of noise. Here are some switches more focused on minimizing noise:

Outemu Boba U4 - a quiet switch with a strong tactile bump (MX Browns have a weak tactile bump)
Healios v2 - a linear switch (smooth, no bump) designed to be very quiet
Cherry MX Silent Red - a quiet linear switch you might actually find in a factory keyboard rather than something custom or DIY

At least two of the three use rubber pads inside to minimize noise.

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

IBM SK-8845 Ultranav USB keyboard

IT'S GOT THE RUBBER MOUSE NIPPLE AND EVERYTHING! Fucking lol, that's amazing. I'm tempted to go that route just for pure nostalgia sake... I should probably avoid anything that's long-discontinued though, as I probably wouldn't be able to repair it if it stopped working, and then I'd be back at square one.

Cherry MX Brown switches

The actual post in the center of those is brown, right? I popped a key off, and the ones in mine are kind of a yellow-orange color like the Helios v2 ones you posted, but with a black housing. The noise they produce is pretty much entirely from the bottom of the keycap hitting plastic when it bottoms out (which is significantly dampened by rubber o-rings I added to it) and then another plastic-on-plastic sound on release... which maybe that is the components of the switch hitting itself? Most of the noise is from release. Slowly depressing a key until it bottoms out, then slowly releasing it so that all of the plastic-on-plastic collisions are super gentile, a keystroke makes virtually no noise.

[–] Zak@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

IT’S GOT THE RUBBER MOUSE NIPPLE AND EVERYTHING!

If you like that, you should see Tex. (This comment was typed on a Tex Shinobi)

[–] fefellama@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

A web search says this uses Cherry MX Brown switches

Strange, I had the same thought about swapping out the switches and found that OP's keyboard had Razer's Orange Switches (which supposedly are tactile and silent), but maybe that's a newer/different model. Regardless, I second the recommendation to try out some different switches. There's a big different between the feel of linear, tactile, and clicky switches, and if someone doesn't like one, they might still be fine with another type. Clicky switches in particular can be polarizing for their sounds, but linear switches can be as smooth as butter.

[–] Zak@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

I'm not necessarily advising OP to swap keyswitches. I don't think that's a hot-swap keyboard, and they expressed no desire to solder.

I do, however think researching the switches available in factory or built-to-order keyboards could lead to better results. In this case, mimicking the feel of a Thinkpad T60 calls for something with a strong tactile bump and shorter travel than most mechanical keyswitches. O-rings can shorten travel.

I, too like the T60 keyboard enough that I built a Tex Shinobi with Durock Koala switches, which have a strong, early tactile bump that's a lot like the feel of the T60. I don't mind the longer travel or some clacking, so I haven't used any lube or O-rings.

[–] kubok@fedia.io 5 points 3 days ago

A friend of mine bought a gaming keyboard with magnetic switches (which is a new concept to me). That felt comfortable. I sadly forgot which brand or model it was.

That being said, if you have red or yellow switches, your keyboard should not be clicky. Many mechanical keyboards even have swappable swihches, so in theory you should be able to replace the switches on your keyboard with red ones.

[–] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

try a low profile keychron. make sure it's with red switches--no clicking. it can be corded or wireless. it's not "laptop flat" but about as close as you'll get. everything you need, nothing you don't. i loved mine so much i bought another for work

https://www.keychron.com/collections/low-profile-keyboard-collection

[–] wjrii@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This is a good suggestion. That generation of ThinkPad keyboards wasn’t the No-travel scissor switch nonsense that most laptop keyboards now anyway. It was IBM buckling sleeve technology, and a low profile tactile switch with similarly low-pro keys would probably be about the closest thing to its feel.

[–] Zak@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The Thinkpad T60 has scissor switches. Source: have one, pulled a keycap to confirm it.

[–] wjrii@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Ahh, yeah, I stand corrected. Sleeves were gone from the Thinkpads earlier than I thought.

[–] Onyxonblack@lemm.ee 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Look at the Periboard-326 wired mini. It's a mesh-chiclet style backlit. I buy 3 of everything usually, backups are always nice, and then years later when you need them, it would be out of stock of course. Anyways, perixx is a German company, and the boards feel great and I use them for gaming no issues.

EDIT: forgot to mention they are priced at $25 or less

[–] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I'm not entirely clear on the layout you want or the feel or travel distance of the key presses you like, but I am reasonably comfortable that this one checks all your boxes.

https://www.razer.com/gaming-keyboards/razer-ornata-v3-x

EDIT: I would bet dollars to donuts you would love something along these lines if you swapped out the standard keycaps with low profile ones.

https://www.keychron.com/collections/keychron-he-keyboards/products/keychron-k4-he-wireless-magnetic-switch-custom-keyboard

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I would bet dollars to donuts you would love something along these lines if you swapped out the standard keycaps with low profile ones.

I've never even heard of magnetic switches. I'm intrigued! Trying to imagine the feel of spring pushing against a magnet, I think I you're right: that sounds like it would feel great! I'm going to hit a few local electronics stores to see if I can find one to try out - seems like an endcap-display kind of thing.

Skimming that second link you posted, I see a few options on the keycaps, but none that say low profile. Would that be a 3rd party purchase thing, or am I overlooking something from Keychron?

The magnetic switches themselves don't actually click, right? I pulled up some reviews and it still sounds clicky, but I'm guessing that's the plastic-on-plastic sound of the keycap hitting the post... so, does the rubber o-ring trick work with these to make it fairly silent?

The Ornata also looks like a solid choice per my wishlist. I haven't had great luck with Razer - tbh, part of me's been looking forward to the Blackwidow finally breaking so I'd have an excuse to be done with them. But... a match is a match!

Thanks for the feedback!

[–] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 days ago

These particular switches are not clicky and are fairly silent to be honest. I can speak from experience because I bought one of these and I fucking hate it. But you would love it because it’s the exact kind of key press feel you’re describing. Plus, you can tweak it to be stronger or weaker resistance, depending on whatever mood you’re in frankly. And yes, the key caps would have to be a third-party purchase, but you can find low profile key caps on Amazon and as long as they are cherry compatible, which like 99.9% of key caps are, you’ll be fine. They’ll sit a little higher because than they would on a low profile keyboard because the Hall effect switches on the Keychron are not low profile so the stems are not shorties like you would find on a true low profile, but if you put low profile key caps on them, I don’t think you’ll really care that you know they’re 4 mm higher up from the board plate then a true low profile cap would be. It doesn’t really make a difference in the typing experience and you wouldn’t even notice unless you’re looking really close.

[–] IloveyouMF@lemmy.world -1 points 2 days ago

here is only one answer Logitech G15, I got one I like it

[–] Damn990099@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

From what you want if you dont mind building your own keyboard i would recommend getting a: 60% with hot swappable blank (no switches included) w/rgb backlight, and low profile linear switches.

Tldr. Do some research and have fun building something unique for you.

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Kind of intrigued by this option as well. My knee-jerk is that this is 100% outside of my skill level: I've never done any kind of real circuitry type stuff. Is there a for-dummies guide you're aware of that treats the reader like an absolute dumbass who needs adult supervision through the entire project? ...cuz that's what I'd probably need to not fuck this up. At the same time, I do kinda love the idea of making my own unique board!

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

My favorite modern keyboard is the logitech k780