Stem is still heavily dominated by Men, biology might be different as more woman are in bio than men are, and becoming more common in other stems. engineer and programming sitll gear towards men.

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[–] moosetwin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 31 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

here's a related video from Angela Collier, if you want to read more about how women are treated in STEM

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[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 11 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

When I was a freshman before transition, I had a guy save my number and call me like 2 years after we had an intro engineering class (we spoke maybe once?) to ask me out on a date.

[–] SharkWeek@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I had that with a contractor who had had my number for work purposes. He kept trying for 5 years.

I'm a butch lesbian, my mistake was being polite and chatty with him.

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[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 0 points 7 hours ago (11 children)

Is that ... a bad thing? I am missing something, did he take the number from somewhere or you gave it to him? But otherwise calling someone and asking out is a pretty harmless thing to do.

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[–] undeadotter@sopuli.xyz 166 points 15 hours ago (6 children)

The experiences trans men and women have with misogyny will never not be fascinating to me. Like, for the first time ever we have this huge sample size of people who have experienced how their gender presentation affects how people interact with them, giving tangible proof of misogyny in action. And it can't just be swept aside with 'MaYbE tHe wOmEn JuSt miSuNDerStOoD' or 'mAYbe tHe mAN diDN't MeAn iT LiKE tHaT'. I mean idiots will still make idiot arguments but at least it chips away at them a little bit.

[–] eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone 59 points 13 hours ago (5 children)

I told one of my friends that I'm being looked at differently in crowds now, and he just said "no you're imagining it".

Many people just do not believe what trans people tell them. At all.

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[–] ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.zip 76 points 14 hours ago

Hello it's me a trans woman. I knew before transition about some of it but never really understood. When I was masc I didn't realize how much of it was basically hidden in plain sight because of how I learned to socialize. After transitioning though omg it's everywhere. I'm in Seattle right now where I don't have to try too hard to pass and still get treated at least base line okay. Even then I still use my masc voice more than my femme voice because people take me more seriously when I do. Like there's a cultural acceptance of trans people here but if I behave more masc I get the privilege of being "one of the boys" even if I'm visually in full femme mode. It's all so weird

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 7 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (4 children)

Religon is probably what initially does this to people's brains

Indoctrinating children into religious systems of arbitrary hierarchy gives little boys god complexes and makes little girls into property.

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 13 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Depends on where you are from, but the sort of thinking that gets people into religion gets people into misogyny even without religion in my experience.

[–] OccultIconoclast@reddthat.com 3 points 7 hours ago

Misogyny is a religion. Religion isn't just myths and worship, it's also social orders and value systems.

[–] ReputedlyDeplorable@sh.itjust.works 14 points 13 hours ago

Oh my goodness yes! Not to mention the whole if you don’t dress “modestly” it’s your fault if you get unwanted attention thing. It’s a grooming ground.

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[–] dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone 92 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

wow, that's really out there for being bee movie erotica

[–] tdawg@lemmy.world 14 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Idk I'm pretty hard rn

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[–] Impromptu2599@lemmy.world 50 points 15 hours ago

That is horrible that anyone has to go through that.

[+] brutallyhonestcritic@lemmy.world -52 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (4 children)

I feel for OP. I really do. I want everyone to be treated as equals, honestly.

However, does OP even realize that their anecdotal experience doesn't even remotely satisfy the (heavy) burden of proof for their biased hypothesis?

In a blind study, everyone in a room going silent when a trans person talks is not necessarily experimentally a 1:1 to everyone in the room going silent when a biological male talks. MANY people that have transitioned (whether they want to admit it or not) have a noticeable difference in their vocal timbre than their biological counterparts. Maybe people went silent because they were fascinated by or fixated on the unusual timbre of the OP’s transitioned vocal cords. We will never know… and some of us realize that correlation does not equal causation.

For example, you wouldn’t conduct a scientific study where you’re attempting to show the differences between how males and females are treated and choose to have one of your control subjects be a trans male. It’s just different despite how inconvenient and hotly debated that truth is.

Additionally, OP was in the same department for years and then transitioned. So, naturally people would approach a more experienced person for help or advice regardless of perceived sex if they knew that person was there longer than them.

Obviously there are differences between how men and women are treated…but OP seems to be using the worst possible anecdotes to provide proof for their hypothesis without correcting for these sometimes subtle inconsistencies. Maybe OP thinks they pass as a male a lot more convincingly than they actually do.

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 57 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

The opposite happened to me when I transitioned. When I was perceived as a guy, if I was in a meeting, people didn't instantly fall silent if I spoke, but if they tried to overtalk me and I just kept speaking, they would eventually give way. I transitioned 8 years ago, and from the earliest days of my transition until now, if someone starts overtalking me, they will just keep doing it even if I don't stop talking. The only way to stop them is to vocally call them out and ask them to be quiet until I'm finished.

Similarly, I used to be seen as one of the two "tech guys". The person that people would come up to and ask for tech advice to avoid calling the internal helpdesk. After I transitioned, they started coming up to me and asking me where the other tech guy is.

My career has stalled since I came out. I'm in a trans inclusive country, in a trans inclusive workplace, and I transitioned so long ago, that most people don't know that I'm trans or simply forget. But since coming out, the various shoulder taps in to project opportunities and the like just don't happen anymore.

Maybe people went silent because they were fascinated by or fixated on the unusual timbre of the OP’s transitioned vocal cords.

It's a nice theory, but it's somewhat strange how my own experience as a trans person transitioning from male to female had the opposite impact. Did people start overtalking me because they were fascinated by my timbre?

Additionally, OP was in the same department for years and then transitioned. So, naturally people would approach a more experienced person for help or advice regardless of perceived sex if they knew that person was there longer than them.

Again, it's a nice theory, but in my case, they stopped approaching me. And even the ones who don't know that I'm trans don't approach me that way, because I'm not seen as one of the "tech folk" anymore, despite not losing my experience when I transitioned.

but OP seems to be using the worst possible anecdotes

Similarly, you are using the least likely possibilities that contradict the first hand experience of folk directly in these scenarios to fit your pre-conceived notion of what is happening.

Yeah, the OPs post and mine are anecdotal, so you shouldn't take either of our experiences as universal truths. But your takes aren't even anecdotal. They're suppositions.

[–] pageflight@lemmy.world 8 points 12 hours ago

Thanks for sharing. All these experiences are very illuminating regarding the lesser impact of socialization, too. Like, I might have thought my female colleagues had just been told to cede the floor so many times they didn't often speak at meetings. And that could still be adding to it, but here are the same individuals with the same habits getting starkly different treatment.

Even knowing these trends from countless other stories and statistics, hearing each additional experience helps keep it in mind and see more often when it's happening.

[–] brutallyhonestcritic@lemmy.world 10 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

That’s true.

Thanks for not immediately dogpiling me and instead actually making some great points. I appreciate the perspective.

[–] bishbosh@lemm.ee 51 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Everything they are describing is well supported by solid evidence that you can look up. Further, in conversations of what would drive women out of stem, the welcome harshness and sexism pushing people away is the core of issue.

Ultimately this dismissive attitude towards a well known and understood phenomenon speaks to the arrogance of those that disagree with the well established reality.

You are going out of your way to poke holes in someone describing a very rare and valid view that demonstrates the discrepancy gender presentation gives in lived experience, and how it follows well tested sexist trends by holding their tumblr post to the standard of a scientific paper. You are so desperate to preserve your warped world view that the severity of sexism in STEM isn't as big of a deal as it is made out that you have taken a genuinely ridiculous position.

Do better.

[+] brutallyhonestcritic@lemmy.world -37 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (2 children)

You are going out of your way to poke holes in someone describing a very rare and valid view that demonstrates the discrepancy gender presentation gives in lived experience, and how it follows well tested sexist trends by holding their tumblr post to the standard of a scientific paper.

I used a scientific approach in the science memes community. You don’t seem to care about actual science. You’re going out of your way to believe pseudo science in the name of being kind to someone.

Do better.

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 11 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Have you ever utilized a case study in your work? The value of research is in having a variety of things to pull from. All you're doing is writing up the considerations page and slapping on the cover.

Whats your agenda in doing so?

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