.ml right again.
this post was submitted on 14 Mar 2025
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Fuck that...AOC and the rest of the progressives need to make their own party. The Ds are done.
As long as the US uses a first-past-the-post system, third parties will not be viable. The only REAL way to go forward is to take over the Democratic party and push it left. We'll see how it goes...
The US has always had two parties, but it hasn't always had the same two parties. Creating a new party that's successful is entirely possible, if doing so completely destroys one of the existing parties in the process.
For example, the Whig Party emerged after the Federalist Party collapsed, and the Republican Party emerged after the Whig Party collapsed.
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_parties_in_the_United_States
As long as the US uses a first-past-the-post system, third parties will not be viable.
Democrats don't have to field candidates if they're so damned scared about splitting the vote. It's not like they're particularly interested in winning anyway.
Yeah, but they will anyway, because they'd rather split the vote than let progressives win. Dunno why you think that's the case at every other point along the way but that they'll just bow to higher goals when someone is much more explicitly trying to eat their lunch.
At least winning a primary means trying to split the vote will go against the normies feelings of fairness and "the team".
At least winning a primary means trying to split the vote will go against the normies feelings of fairness and “the team”.
For that, you have to win a primary. And we cannot trust what democrats hilariously call primaries, when they have them at all.
Why? AOC wins primaries, Omar wins primaries, Bernie wins primaries (for his senate seat). Unless you think they only cheat for the presidency, this "primaries are rigged" view seems like roughly the same level of conspiracy as the MAGAs.
What's the conspiracy that's so undefeatable it's easier to build a new party from scratch that needs to overcome vote splitting in every election?
Why? AOC wins primaries, Omar wins primaries, Bernie wins primaries (for his senate seat).
Bernie isn't a democrat.
Unless you think they only cheat for the presidency, this “primaries are rigged” view seems like roughly the same level of conspiracy as the MAGAs.
Was what they did in order to make sure Cuellar kept his seat rigging? Was failing to protect Cori Bush and Jamaal Bowman rigging?
What’s the conspiracy that’s so undefeatable it’s easier to build a new party from scratch that needs to overcome vote splitting in every election?
Right. Any level of unhappiness with the party's partiality to pro-genocide centrists and away from anyone interested in doing something other then capitulating must be a conspiracy.
I'm sure that democrats just found exactly enough votes to avert a shutdown because there are only 10 cowards in the entire caucus.
Bernie, who is conveniently not a Democrat when people (centrists and leftists) want him to not be a Democrat, wins Democratic primaries. He's not even in the party and he's the supposed example of true leftism opposed to neoliberal centrism, and he still wins the primaries. He could go it alone in a three way race like you wanted, and the all-powerful DNC could rig his primary so he'd be out of their hair for good, but weirdly both don't. Because in the end it's just the votes that matter and winning a primary to clear a lane and then winning a 1-on-1 against the conservatives is easier and more effective.
And no, those things aren't rigging. Opposing coalitions of centrists using their social influence or even antagonistic organizations spending money on advertising does not mean the vote is unfair. And neither of those things go away if you just decide to make a new party. However you label yourselves, you need to be ready and able to beat that.
And people do! AIPAC wanted Omar out too. The party establishment never wanted AOC to win. They both had less money and less influence than the forces arrayed against them, and they won by just doing good politics and convincing regular people to vote for them. Because whatever money and machine politics was against them, the thing that counts is still just votes.
Bernie, who is conveniently not a Democrat when people (centrists and leftists) want him to not be a Democrat
He's also conveniently not a democrat when democrats want to argue in court that they don't have to run fair primaries.
While it will be a problem I think right now it is worse to stick under the Democrat label. Right now the Democrats are a fascist-lite party which has only served to drag down real progressive candidates and stab the common man in the back in favor of status quo or for needless compromise. The Democratic Party is so deeply rotten that abandoning it is just the better option.
Edit: The Democratic Party is held up by its progressive wing, the progressives help maintain the party’s image of being left wing/centrist. Once the progressives leave the real nature of the party will cause it to collapse under its own failures.
This will not be the first time we have had one of the major parties fall in this nation. Like the Federalists, Democratic-Republicans and Whigs before it, it is time for a dying party to disintegrate. It is time for a new party which actually has to give a shit is formed.
You are high off your rocker if you legitimately think you have a better chance of winning as an independent (or whatever they want to call the new party) than a democrat right now. We are so woefully entrenched in a two party system that we need multiple elections cycles just for a third party to even get a foothold in people's minds. I am very very in favor of additional parties and have always thought that the two party system is absolutely terrible for just about everything we wish a government to do but at this point I just don't see it happening for quite some time, epecially with first past the polls voting.
John Adams was painfully accurate in his warning:
Let me now warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party... It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeebles the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption... There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.
The whole letter is fantastic and incredibly salient today. But this sums it up decently.
We are so woefully entrenched in a two party system that we need multiple elections cycles just for a third party to even get a foothold in people’s minds.
No, quite the opposite: we need a whole bunch of non-fascist Democrats to spectacularly defect all at once, such that the public perceives the new party as having captured the initiative and momentum. The loss of that public mindshare and base of support would then cause the remaining dregs of the Democratic Party to collapse.
What we need and what is are two wildly different things. I also think asking for the collapse of one party and the creation of another is only going to lead you right to the same problem. It may take you a bit to get there but a two party system is a recipe for exactly what you are seeing.
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they need to take over the party!
If they take over the party, you have to shoulder the responsibility of everything the parties done in the past. It's easier to just start a new one, because I don't fucking feel like a democrat anymore. I'm tired of calling myself a democrat. Because democrats are spineless feckless fucking morons that spend tens of millions of dollars after they lose an election to find out why, and then do absolutely fucking nothing with that information.
The sheer level of idiocy and hubris required to spend that kind of money to find out a way to fix a problem, and when you have that information do nothing with it is beyond anything the forefathers could have ever fucking dreamed of.
We need to take responsibility, because we broke democracy. The two party system doesn't work anymore. I want out.
i hear you, the usa is not going to have a 3 party system anytime soon, we need to get out of what appears to be a one party system first. we are not europe.
MAGA took over the Republican Party for a reason if the progressives were able to organize their way out of a paper bag they could do it themselves.
if the progressives were able to organize their way out of a paper bag
Well, join them.
MAGA took over the Republican Party for a reason
That reason is that the GOP allowed them to. In 2016 the GOP held an extremely competitive primary and actively embraced MAGA as their new path to success, while the DNC decided to make sure a progressive doesn't get the nomination again even at the cost of losing the election.
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Schumer's current term ends in 2029 so this is just more performative nonsense.
My friend, almost all of politics can be reasonably described as "performative nonsense". If you want to bash the Dems, you can easily do so, but you'll have to try slightly harder.
Not necessarily. Sinema did her bullshit impression of McCain at the very beginning of her term. She was toast from that moment on, AZ dems froze her out and started working to replace her from that moment on.
That's still 4 years away. Next year or even 2 years? Performative. But a whole 4 years is a good chunk of time to maybe put a spine back into Dem leadership.
Sounds like she should start campaigning now. It's not like Schumer's gonna grow a spine between now and then, so AOC will just acquire more to run against.
I've never felt more defeated electorally than by the current crop of Democrats.
Losing to Hillary in the '16 primaries was rough, but it wasn't even close to enough to get me or almost anyone to drop out of politics. At least the 2020 ratfucking gave us the platform. Losing to Trump, now twice, also pretty rough.
But what Schumer and Jefferies are doing now, its more defeating than anything before. Its not just a weak resistance, or a paper or performative resistance: its anti-resistance. What Schumer and Jefferies have done, through their insescent weakness, will be long term more damaging to the party than anything that Kamala or Biden did or didn't do, in-spite of their own obvious and utter failings.
News flash: The Democrats are throwing the mid-terms. Now. Right fucking now and right in front of you. The blew the fucking election, and now they are putting in double time to blow the next one.
And you have 0 control or leverage to be able to stop them because they don't want you in their party. They don't want to share power with brown people. They don't want to share power with queer people. They don't want to share power with immigrants or atheists or scientists or anyone who isn't an ivy league, beltway insider. They will not be giving over the reigns to the party, no matter how pretty-please with sprinkles on top you ask them. They don't want to share power with the tent-poles of the big tent party. You are a consumable resource to them. They're going to throw you and the entire Democratic project under the bus to preserve their posture in a kabuki power game with themselves.
There is no path to salvation through the Democratic party. To quote Carlin: Its a BIG club, and you ain't in it.
There is no path to resistance through the Democratic party. The way things have been done in the past hasn't worked. You don't have decades to find your footing and figure out how to stop this.
You have days, weeks.
Fuck giving up or defeatism though. Lifetime Opposition just because of spite is the way for me.
Seems more like a call for a Democratic version of the GOP's Tea Party than "giving up" or "defeatism".
Call it the "Guillotine Party" for the applicable social precedent.
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Sounds like a good plan to me. AOC needs to head the DNC.
Or the DNC needs to be thrown to the wolves.
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