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I cannot understand how conservatives in the us that do not buy in to the maga talking points can still vote for their party.
They have seen the checks and balances in action so all they need to do is stay home one election cycle to give a clear signal.. this is not the direction they want. This will force the Republican party to face the maga extremists and go back to their normal ways. Which still is not good but at least not beholden to a narcissist wannabe dictator.
The problem is that this didn't start with Trump. He is just the perfect type of candidate to harness the lightning.
That mentality started with Lee Atwater and has slowly mutated into what it is today. All of the signs were there. It's why John McCain had such a hard time and why he had to have a "firebrand" as a running mate
The group at the center of a lot of the mutation is Fox News. Without their dedication to creating an alternate universe of reality, I don't think things would be as bad.
There's a pretty good documentary on Lee Atwater called Boogey Man and it's on Prime right now.
Always thought it was super weird that John McCain was too left for some people
The modern Conservative movement found President Eisenhower too far to the Left.
Hell, some John Birch Society loons thought Nixon was too far to the left.
Nixon.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mad-magazine-super-patriot/
Original cartoon was in 1968, and nothing has changed since. Well, maybe the part about them hating the 'Very Rich.'
I hate absolutely everyone just on general principle. I guess that makes me a Super Duper Mega Ultra Patriot!
Incidentally, McCain was the last Republican presidential candidate I seriously evaluated as a possible choice, though I did end up voting for Obama.
At the time, I thought that if we had McCain as President, we wouldn't have to listen to the GOP go after Clinton for four years. I soon realized that any Dem, no matter who, was demonic in their eyes.
That's true, but Obama really broke their brains... I wonder what it was about him that made them so upset. Hmmm.
Probably because they hate brown....
Brown mustard!
Look up 'Travelgate' and Vince Foster. They were creating Clinton scandals from Day Zero. I know a lot of people who think that if they'd held their fire until they had Monica they could have actually gotten Bill Clinton impeached and thrown out. But by the time they got an actual offense everyone could see that it was a witch hunt.
He had some shitty beliefs and policies but dude was a POW. I could respect him for that.
reminiscent of Bush getting respect for his TX ANG service (which many think he didn't even complete) vs. John Kerry's actual vietnam service.
Which got 'swift boated' by a bunch of chuds the media gave way more attention to than should have ever happened.
Rupert Murdoch makes me want to believe in hell.
It predates Atwater. We should acknowledge the fact that Republicans planned a coup around the same time as Hitler's beer hall putch. FDR then cut a deal with the fascist Republicans to temporarily pass his new deal policies. In exchange for not prosecuting and locking them up.
We should also acknowledge the fact that the man most likely to have been tapped as their fascist dictator had. His son and grandson go on to be president of the United States. Some of the most damaging ones
That isn't to downplay Atwater and his contemporaries. They managed the merger of the two most evil groups in modern American history. After the Democratic party purged itself. The fact is the Republican party has been anti-democratic and authoritarian since nearly the start of the 20th century.
Are you talking about https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot ? I didn't know much about this until I looked it up.
Yes. It is some of the most sus stuff in US history. That gets glossed over so quick and easy. Typically with history teachers, etc. Never even helping to make people make basic connections surrounding it. It's just a plot by some businesses that happened. The end. Sketchy as hell That we know it happened. And supposedly there was damning evidence. But we don't know what any of that evidence was or who all it implicated. Talk about your actual deep state.
Do you have a link on that, that someone can read up on?
Read more history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
That was a wild read, especially seen through the lens of current events.
One part of it that caught my eye was this...
Really gave off some Starship Troopers novel vibes.
Unfortunately, I'm not aware of anything good that lays this out specifically.. Or anything truly authoritative. But do a deep dive on the business plot AKA the Wall Street putch.
The fact there isn't a lot of documentation about it is almost as damning as if there was. So yes this gets a bit into conspiracy theory territory. But it is conspiracy theory well-backed by history and rationality.
Official accounts tend to only name the person that contacted to enlist Butler. Gerald MacGuire. Who promised Butler half a million troops to march on Washington as well as large financial backing. All to stop Roosevelt and his new deal.
There were hearings held on it. Investigations even. The New York Times a long with much US media at the time initially called it a "gigantic hoax". That characterization later turned to "alarmingly true" and that "definite proof had been found that the much publicized Fascist march on Washington"
So then, if this was alarmingly true. And definitive proof had been found. Who were these 500,00 troops? Who were these financial backers? Why don't we know? Why was no one really punished? Why is this so sketchy, and why have people generally been okay with this?
What we do know, is that the Republican party was traditionally the party of industrialists and corporations. And that many of the owners of industry and corporations sympathized with the Nazis. IBM for instance, helping the Nazis create a computerized system to track Jews on way to slaughter. And Dow chemical helped them to create the gas to kill them with. We know for a fact that Republicans have gnashed their teeth, moaning about The new deal for the last century. As well as the fact that despite not knowing the names. A number of Republican senators were implicated.
The most rational explanation I've seen for it. Happens to coincide with FDR's New deal. Basically claiming that in return for not expelling, prosecuting, or punishing those involved. They had to help pass his new deal package.
There's a lot going on behind the scenes in US government that rarely gets documented and publicized. That FDR used leverage to get the new deal passed seems supremely believable. And what better leverage than "We know you're a fascist and a traitor. And we could prove it". The package secured his legacy. In many ways it's a very rational, and in the short term, beneficial exchange. The long term effects of letting fascism fester unpunished however. I think all of us are well versed in these days.
The thing is, Atwater understood how to appeal to the moderates. As long as you didn't come right out and say it, you could deny it.
Once you've said it out loud, you can't go back.
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I think I was actually looking for the Frontline one (what I had seen). Thanks!
There is a deep schism in America. One that conservatives have slowly been losing. Progress is made and the conservative ideal of life (which has served them very well and they are quite comfortable with) has been chipped away at for decades. Obama becoming President brought it all to a head. The country was taken over by folks who don't look like them and don't think like them. They are just as afraid of losing their country to the left as the left is afraid of Trump's fascism.
Trump, regardless of any flaws he could have, has basically made the cold war that they'd been slowly losing hot, and they think that's their ticket to turning things around and winning. And he'll turn on a dime to attack anyone, so they just need to be on his side and wait for the left to be effectively destroyed and that will preserve their way of life. And so they are fanatically loyal to him and to a large degree will bear any pain as long as it hurts the right people more.
So they won't turn away from Trump no matter what and he's made it easy for them by providing the lie that he's under attack by a vast conspiracy so they can believe all his legal woes are purely political if that makes them feel more comfortable. They believe in him because he is their champion. He is their Goliath. Their Achilles. Their god-appointed savior.
They don't want the status quo, because progress was slowly happening under it. They want a hot war and Trump will deliver. And they're too willfully blind to see the cost that must eventually be paid.
People like that do not think long term. Otherwise, they woukd realize change is inevitable and unstoppable. This change might not be what they want or what any of us want (robot apocoloypse comes to mind) but its coming.
Note: investing does not count as long term thinking here. I'm talking about a social and political future.
There is a saying: Democrats fall in love and Republicans fall in line.
I'm convinced that the majority of the Republican party are held hostage by a disproportionately influential alt-right voting bloc. The alt-right is pretty much about 5-10% of the party but because they are loud and violent, they get 90% of the coverage.
Republican candidates, however, know that Republicans will vote Republican no matter what so they cater their message to the alt right, knowing that come the general election, even the most liberal Republican will still vote Republican.
The sad, sad thing is....Democrats are now there too. Liberals and democracy loving Americans have to vote Democrat. But the Democrats have a different problem. Because their voting bloc is more diverse, it's harder to have a coalition. Many Democrats have to cater to moderates, and not progressives, in order to get the majority to vote. Not only that, but many moderates value "bipartisanship" whereas Republicans don't and the Republicans know that. It's why we get shit deals on bills and Republicans consistently going back on their word.
I think that's 5 to 10% number is a bit low.
I think there's a larger swath of the population that buy into certain belief systems so much that they make themselves delusional to anything else, unable to see the truth of things.
Or even if there's a moment when they see the truth, they are unable to deal with the fact that they've been conned/ignorant, and retreat back to what is safe and feels good for them.
It's ironic actually that that section of the population came up with the term "the wolf in sheep's clothing" but can't see the wolf when it's standing in front of them, wearing a sheep outfit.
One of the truths that America fails to accept over generations now is that a large swath of the population who really wouldn't mind being controlled, and see things the way they want to see them, versus how they really are.
We really shouldn't underestimate the numbers of the population of these kind of people, no matter what the ramifications of that means and how hard it is to deal with.
Perhaps they too have constant messaging from their party to hold their noses and vote for him this time or joe "will destroy their way of life"
Because they hate women, minorities, and poor people more than they disagree with Trump. That's the real problem with this country...