this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2023
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And what is a "fun" car? How do we determine that? Get a government tester to drive the car for an hour and if he looks miserable getting out then the car is good to go?
Many cars that people call fun are normal hatchbacks. Nobody calls SUVs or pickups fun, and yet they're far more dangerous. Should people drive more of those? Because that's what we'd get.
And comparing Top Gear and its production crew to literal Nazis is insane. Get some perspective.
A "fun" car is car that encourages dangerous driving by pretending to be a "sports" or "competitive" car or simply pretending it's for "precision" driving or "racing". Tuned cards, high horsepower cars, supercars. Do you understand it now? Cards should encourage safe, responsible driving. Yes, distracted driving kills the most people by speeding is close second and there's entire industry of automotive press and TV shows that encourage it by promoting the idea that driving fast is fun. They kill thousands of people every year.
But that's not exclusively what people call a fun car, people call all kinds of cars fun.
The current generation Civic was praised for its handling, suspension, and being quite fun to drive - do you think it's so unsafe it should be outlawed, but a Hummer shouldn't be?
Pretty much the only cars that are basically never called fun are SUVs and pickups - the cars that are most dangerous!
I don't believe that you'll find any proof that, say, an MX-5/Miata is more dangerous or causes more deaths than a Ford F250. And yet you say the issue is with fun cars and sports cars.
Cars being enjoyable isn't the issue. And the people behind car TV shows aren't fucking synonymous with Nazis. What an awful take.
The Nazis wanted to exterminate races and cultures they found to be inferior. The top gear crew have a different hobby to you, one that inherently carries a small amount of risk. That's not the same.
To other people. I'm fine with them driving on a racetrack. I'm not fine with them promoting sports cars on public roads. I know they never say "speeding on public roads is fun" but the entire car culture they promote comes down to reckless driving really. And your hobby should never put other people in danger. Any other hobby that would sometimes kill bystanders would be banned. Also, millions of people die in car accidents, big chunk of them because speeding. The risk is not small.
As to what "fun" car is I'm not going to get into definitions here, I'm not writing a law. I think it's clear what I mean. Most people drive under the speed limit, don't accelerate or break suddenly, don't take turns at high speeds. Driving for them is a normal activity. Other people do all those reckless things because they think it's "fun". Yes, you can drive recklessly in any car but some cars specifically promote it. I'm not talking about specific models, more about the idiotic car culture in general.
I want to see your data that sports cars or "fun" cars are the driving force of accidents.
Until we've established that, all of what you're saying is completely baseless.
From what I can see looking at data in the UK, the Toyota Prius is the most crashed car, with 1,207 crashes per 100,000 on the road. You have to go all the way down to 11th to find a sporty car - the Audi RS3.
I'm not surprised, after all, we all know the Prius is the most savagely quick and sporty car known to man. Bugatti and Koenigsegg have yet to match it!
E: funny enough, the least crashed cars contains the likes of the Jaguar XK, Porsche 911, Audi TT, John Cooper Works Mini, Porsche 718, Porsche Boxster, and BMW Z4. Funny that. Maybe the people who enjoy driving the most and cherish their car the most are the people who are most attentive to the whole driving process.
I'm not saying they kill the most people. Distracted drivers kill more people but you don't have TV shows that claiming that texting while driving is fun. Speeding is the second most common cause of accidents and it's absolutely is related to the entire "car culture" promoting fast driving and sports cars.
I've literally just given you data disproving the myth you've pedaled. Look at my comment again. See the edit.
People need to stop driving their Toyota Prius and Honda Insight and get something safer, like a Porsche. 😉
E: and I've looked up your speeding claim as well. At least in the UK, driving above the speed limit is a factor in 7.4% of crashes, making it the 7th most common reason to be in a crash, behind the likes of not checking mirrors, carelessness, loss of control due to slippery conditions, etc.
Maybe it's different where you are, but I'm getting a clear picture here: the relatively small amount of "fun" cars on the road are not the driving force of accidents, no matter how much you baselessly say they are.
https://www.vox.com/22675358/us-car-deaths-year-traffic-covid-pandemic
From here:
"According to several traffic experts I spoke with, the explanation for the 2020 fatality spike is relatively straightforward: With fewer cars on the road during quarantine, traffic congestion was all but eliminated, which emboldened people to drive at lethal speeds."
"And speed is the decisive factor in a car crash’s severity. Everything else — drunk driving, distracted driving, bad weather — makes crashes more likely to happen, but speed is the difference between life and death"
"Controlling speeds on roads is the most important goal of any car safety strategy."
Do you understand? Not all crashes are the same. Slow speed crashes are not the main issue. You need to look at different statistics (and understand them). No, I'm not moving the goal post. Saving lives is the main goal, that's why I'm talking about speeding and not using the turn signals correctly. Speeding kills. If you disagree with this basic fact we really don't have anything to continue talking about.
Also: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/nov/11/bmw-subaru-and-porsche-drivers-more-likely-to-cause-a-crash-study-finds
So maybe Porsche's are not that safe after all? And yes, you can speed in any car. I don't really care if you own Porsche as long as you drive below the speed limit same as I think you're an asshole for driving your Toyota Yaris recklessly. What I have issue with are all the wannabe race drivers practising on public roads. Personally I blame the stupid car culture promoted in TV shows and car magazines but there could be other reasons for it.
Whoaaaa holy cherrypick! You're seriously using crash stats from when we were in lockdown and presenting it as normal conditions?!
Ummm yes you do... you said they should be banned for being too fun.
Of the 20 most crashed per 100,000 cars in the UK, Porsche isn't even in the top 20, but they do have 5 cars in the bottom 20.
So your objections are no longer about safety, if it was you'd have changed your mind after finding out some of the facts. This is about something else. You just fundamentally hate people having enjoyment with their cars? Is that it?
The (not peer reviewed) study only seems to compare Porsche and BMW to Hyundai and Skoda, which is another red flag. Why single out those brands in particular? Nobody ever said Skoda or Hyundai were unsafe. What of the dozens of other car manufacturers, are they to be ignored because they don't fit your narrative?
The study itself doesn't even talk about safety or crashes, just things like the likelihood of speeding, which could be correlated with safety, but it's not the same thing - someone going 75mph on a motorway instead of 70mph, for example, isn't being horrendously unsafe, even if, strictly speaking, they are breaking the law.
No, it's not from the pandemic. Read it again. Do you think speeding kills people only during pandemics? Before the pandemic crashing at high speed was safe? WTF?
I also said I think cars should speed limiters installed. Read my comment again also. If a Porsche has a limited horse power and limited max speed it's fine. Do you think with limited it's not fun any more? Then we agree, ban fun cards.
It literally is from the pandemic. And no, I'm not saying that prior to the pandemic Newton's 2nd law of motion didn't apply, and you know I wasn't. Stop being purposely obtuse.
I said quoting driving stats during a time of unprecedented and unusual driving conditions should not be touted as being reflective of all time.
You said fun cars should be banned. You clearly do have an issue with them.
Dude, everything I quoted were generic facts about speeding and accidents. Why do you think that because the article was written during the pandemic those things only apply during pandemic? Do you really have such serious reading comprehension issues?
They were explicitly talking about how people drove and had incidents during the lockdown period. Read what you posted.
The hilarity in saying I'm the one with reading comprehension issues.
Apologies for my late reply, I was busy driving my sports car on public roads, having a blast.
This only applies during the pandemic? What about the part about "any car safety strategy"? Sorry but if you have problems understanding a short, simple sentence then we don't have anything to talk about.
Nice try. But we both know what your comment said
Not exactly representative of normal driving, is it? We aren't in lockdown, and traffic exists.
Must make you absolutely seethe that sports cars crash the least.
It honestly is hilarious. You're crying behind your phone screen at this imaginary danger. People enjoying driving, oh no 😥😥
What a wet wipe lmao
You know what a spike is? Apparently not.
You're getting warmer, good boy
The fact there was a spike means there was a significant increase during lockdown.
So in other words, not representative of non-lockdown driving. But you know this, that's why you specifically chose that article.
I've already demonstrated that the safest cars on the road are almost all sports cars. Keep crying about it.
I think you're just jealous that you don't have one.
You're pretending, right? I mean you can't be this stupid... Or maybe?
"Increase" means that the problem existed before the lockdown and still exists after lockdown. If you really think people were speeding only during pandemic and deadly car accidents are 'imaginary danger' your and idiot. Keep enjoying your tuned up BMW. It just further confirms my theory that fast cars are for stupid people.
WOOOOOOOOOW you are so smart!!!! Speeding wasn't invented in 2020??!?!!!!
Never said that. Stop being stupid.
You deliberately quoted lockdown driving conditions and presented them as normal, which they aren't.
Bye bye dipshit. I've got some driving to do in my actually fun to drive car. You can just whimper in the corner like the sad little loser you are. Maybe when you pluck up the courage to you can drive your deathtrap Prius.
Sports cars are the safest cars on the road, and it makes you fucking weep 😂