this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2023
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[–] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 207 points 10 months ago (14 children)

The fact that Ram drivers are a close second is hilarious. I guess there is some truth to all the jokes about Rams being driven by aggressive idiots.

[–] Gullible@sh.itjust.works 99 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Aggressive drunk* idiots. Statistically.

[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 36 points 10 months ago (1 children)

At least Tesla owners can blame it on the computer. 🤣

[–] minibyte@sh.itjust.works 21 points 10 months ago (1 children)

“It appears the fault was located between the drivers seat and steering wheel, sir”

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[–] vexikron@lemmy.zip 63 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I am still waiting for the inevitable country music song about a broken hearted cowboy whose self driving car leaves him for another man.

[–] qwertyqwertyqwerty@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Weird Al should be all over this.

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[–] willis936@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago (6 children)

The Forbes article seems to be citing numbers that are now a few weeks out of date. They cite that Tesla drivers have 23.54 accidents per 1,000 drivers and Ram has 22.76. If you go to their source link you'll see that the more recent numbers are Tesla: 31.13 and Ram: 32.90.

https://www.lendingtree.com/insurance/brand-incidents-study/

Ram in MA is 64.44 and I want these fucking things outlawed.

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[–] Fake4000@lemmy.world 123 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Because a bunch of idiots take their hands off their steering wheel and think Elmo's car is 100% safe.

[–] jettrscga@lemmy.world 95 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

That's probably because Elon's literally been trying to sell their autopilot as fully autonomous for at least 7 years now.

History of their self-driving claims

May 2016 someone dies using autopilot

November 2016 Tesla publishes video of self-driving with no hands on wheel

Class action lawsuit

More people die

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago

They've been convince of it by that very man.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 109 points 10 months ago (4 children)

A friendly reminder that road safety advocates recommend against the use of the word "accident" to describe car crashes, because it downplays the fact that many crashes are preventable, either by better safe road design or by the drivers being more responsible with with 2 tonne machinery they are operating.

[–] Dalvoron@lemm.ee 32 points 10 months ago (2 children)
[–] Rakonat@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago (6 children)

First thing that came to mind, honestly thought it was the quote at first.

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[–] Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 14 points 10 months ago (2 children)

If it isn't intentional then isn't it by definition an accident?

If I break my leg while mountainbiking it seems a bit unreasonable to claim that it wasn't an accident because mountainbiking is an extreme sport and this could've been avoided if I was knitting instead.

[–] 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 17 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I'm speeding through a school zone at 60km/h.... I didnt INTEND to kill anyone, but i didnt see the crosswalk and mowed down a bunch of pedestrians.

This is not an accident. Entirely preventable. Intent doesnt matter

The vast majority of car collisions are entirely avoidable.

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[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 102 points 10 months ago (28 children)

This is purely my anecdotal experience, but Tesla drivers appear to be some of the worst drivers on the road. There are stereotypes of drivers. BMW's never signal their turns, Jeeps think they can drive basically however they want including on shoulders, and Tesla drivers are oblivious to any kind of spatial understanding of the road around them.

[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 86 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Tesla drivers are oblivious to any kind of spatial understanding of the road around them

I blame the design that forces you to keep your eyes off the road. Making a left turn? Don't look left, take your eyes off the road and look down at the screen on your right to see the left lane warning. Wipers need adjustment? Take your eyes off the road and look at the touch screen because there are no buttons.

Now that there is data, maybe the highway administration can force Tesla to put driver safety ahead of esthetics.

[–] tias@discuss.tchncs.de 24 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)

I'm sure that's one contributing factor, but I'd bet that the biggest issue is that the car is made to go fast. People who drive faster end up in more accidents. Hence why Audi / BMW drivers are also stereotypically bad drivers - they are both brands with a high-acceleration profile.

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[–] User_4272894@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

The number of times I shout "your car is supposed to be smarter than that!" As a Tesla does something like, without signaling, whips around me and into oncoming traffic to pass a stopped city bus is staggering.

[–] formergijoe@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago

Fun fact, the Lending Tree analysis listed in the article showed that Ram drivers have the "highest incident rate," which looks at accidents, DUIs, speeding, and other traffic citations. This makes them the statistically worst drivers. BMWs have honorable mention as the having the highest DUI rate.

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[–] set_secret@lemmy.world 94 points 10 months ago (10 children)

i know many of you all just LOVE to hate on Tesla, it's like the shit flavor of he year for hating and no doubt Elon's shit fuckery is partially driving it, but honestly this is an absolutely classic Forbes piece of garbage. Firstly, it's a masterclass in selective bias - focusing solely on Tesla while barely whispering about Ram's near-similar accident rates. Classic move to sensationalize one brand over another. Then there's the U.S. only scope, which conveniently ignores the global context which could paint a vastly different picture. The article kicks off with a 'non-causal' disclaimer but then spends the rest of the time subtly linking Tesla's Autopilot to the high accident rate, without concrete evidence. It's a bit like saying 'no offense' before offending someone.

The Tesla recall is mentioned, sneakily implying a connection to the accident rate, despite the lack of direct correlation. The article is less about informing and more about crafting a narrative that fits a preconceived notion, all while skating on thin ice made of half-truths and strategic omissions.

[–] madcaesar@lemmy.world 26 points 10 months ago (28 children)

Two things are true. The article is garbage, but so are Teslas.

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[–] Salad_Fries@lemmy.world 91 points 10 months ago (10 children)

I know its super pedantic, but the word “accident” really grinds my gears in this context.

The proper terminology is “crash”.. accident infers that there is no fault or misconduct.

[–] Tatters@lemmy.world 26 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

The official UK Police term is Road Traffic Collision, or RTC, which does not imply fault or otherwise.

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[–] EvacuateSoul@lemmy.world 21 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Trucking companies have switched the terms in the same way, since "accident" lightens responsibility. Even a not-at-fault crash could have been preventable often times, which is what they try to emphasize.

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[–] Oderus@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago (2 children)

You can intentionally crash into someone which would not be an accident but if you crash into someone not on purpose, then it's an accident.

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[–] littlecolt@lemm.ee 39 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Is it possible that there's a large overlap between idiots who are bad at driving and the type of people who buy Teslas?

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago (7 children)

Yep, and the fact that a ton of people who get these cars legit think they will drive themselves...

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[–] stewsters@lemmy.world 38 points 10 months ago (5 children)

I blame the touchscreen first ideology. Give em some physical buttons that you can feel without taking your eyes off the road.

That and the sheer power can make accidents happen faster than you can react.

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[–] paraphrand@lemmy.world 35 points 10 months ago

But Tesla always says the opposite.

[–] Sirico@lemmy.world 35 points 10 months ago (2 children)

People are allowed cars they don't have skills to use.

[–] maynarkh@feddit.nl 19 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Shouldn't Teslas be easier to use with all that automation? If not, what's the point of automation?

OTOH, I'm all for raising the requirements for getting issued a driving licence, it's just then we have to make a way for people to make do without driving.

[–] Everythingispenguins@lemmy.world 45 points 10 months ago (1 children)

No it makes it harder. I know that sounds crazy but it's very true. Basically humans are very bad at paying attention to boring things. The automation gives the feeling that the computer has it and the human is not ready and aware when the computer doesn't have it. Leading to lots of easily avoidable accidents.

There has been some really good reporting on this over the last year or so. If you want to learn more.

[–] WalnutLum@lemmy.ml 21 points 10 months ago

This is something Japanese train companies figured out awhile ago for train engineers. Because driving locomotives can be really repetitive, they train engineers to do hand signals and call out actions out loud even when they're alone in the car in order to help keep the brain active and focused.

[–] gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 10 months ago (1 children)

To add another factor:

People buy muscle cars and over accelerate because they can't handle the power of those cars

EVs accelerate much quicker than normal cars, Tesla's more than normal EVs

So if someone isn't using the automation they're still susceptible to the classic "overshot into or over something" situation

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[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 17 points 10 months ago (6 children)

Quite frankly, driving skills standards in the entire American continent are a joke to begin with. I've seen current requirements in Canada ("Wut?" bad), united states (teehehehehe bad) and Mexico (the aristocrats joke bad) and I know going south it only gets worse.

I got my driver's license 25 years ago in the Netherlands and had to take classes for a number of months, learn an entire book of rules, had a one bour theory exam where typically only 60-70% would pass at the first try, then I had to take 30 hours of practical lessons with an instructor in a special car, and take a practical exam with an examiner where the rulr is pretty much "one mistake and you're out". I learned how to drive in rain, what to look out for, hoe to drive in show, how to manage losing control of your car, etc etc etc... I was instilled with andeaddaly respect for what s car is and what it can do in seconds to ruin lives for good.

Comparing that ti anything they teach today in the Americas, it's just a sad joke.

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[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 25 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Maybe they're sentient and actively suicidal.

[–] Snapz@lemmy.world 22 points 10 months ago

And doesn't his newest atrocity, long overdue and underdelivered/overpriced, also have a front end like a knife?

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 21 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] AlternateRoute@lemmy.ca 17 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Our latest analysis uses QuoteWizard by LendingTree insurance quote data to determine which car brands have the worst drivers.

Wonder how many drivers of each brand they actually have, that would very much sway the numbers if they have smaller numbers of some brands insured.

This sounds like less of a "study" and more of a top ten list for page views.

[–] TurboDiesel@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago

Yeah, their "safest" list top 3 were all dead marques; Mercury, Pontiac, and Saturn. They definitely have some sampling issues.

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