this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2023
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Why are people making a huge deal out of this? Win10 was released in 2015, and support ends in 2025. That's 10 years of support, I don't think this is unreasonable for a consumer product by any means.
As far as industry goes it's a bit short, but nothing catastrophic. There's plenty of xp machines still running just fine in many places. Lack of security updates is less crucial for most of these applications since they're often not required to be connected to internet.
I can't upgrade to Windows 11 (not that I'd want to considering all their enshittification), so they're leaving me with an unsecured OS. I survive on £160 a month so, no, I won't be paying for fucking security updates, instead I'll be switching to Linux and literally never considering using Windows again.
It's also not reasonable to expect updates forever. No matter what, support for software always stops at some point, and 10 years of support is pretty reasonable for consumer products. Not great, but also not terrible.
Normally sure, but maybe Microsoft shouldn't have tried saying windows 10 was the last windows version, to then release a new version that a lot of people can't even upgrade their current PCs to.
But consider that windows is a paid product, and its competition, linux, is both free and with much much longer support for old hardware, not to mention never having "sequels" in this way. I feel like windows doesn't have much excuse compared to this.
Windows 11, while you can work around it, specifically requests tpm, which definitively is not from 1999..
Also, windows has its own endless list of driver issues, hardware does not always "just work" on windows, on the other hand, it also often "just works" on linux. It depends, of course, but I never had to install a sketchy driver for my PS3 controller on linux (it's in the kernel), but I had to on windows. Not to mention printers.
A bunch of software is also only or primarily for Linux, though that depends of course on your field and what you need. I've seen plenty of software that I needed that did not have a proper (or as good) windows alternative.
I mean, TPM 2.0 is already 4 years old so were not really talking about MS requiring cutting-edge tech when they stop supporting Win10 in two years.
My computer parts were like 8+ years old when I replaced them. And I can afford to do so, not everyone can.
But getting a 6 year old used laptop by the time its necessary is fortunately pretty cheap. And for consumers there's honestly very few that need to use windows, so there's always Linux distros as an alternative.
I get that it's not a good move for consumers, I'm not disagreeing with that. But it's just also so very far from the catastrophe that so many seem to insist it is. It's honestly just a mild inconvenience, and the coverage it's getting is IMO completely out of proportion to the problem.
It's more that windows constantly has all of these little things that build up to something big. For some it's just the straw that broke the camel's back.
It's because of the huge changes in minimum requirements of Windows 11 and Windows 10 being known as last version of Windows.
It's not like this is something that's right around the corner, it's nearly two years down the road from now. If you already have old hardware that doesn't meet specs, then that will be even more deprecated in two years.
Its the same circus every time a windows OS goes EOL, people loose their shit for no reason and then move on.
But not any less usable.
I tried Windows 11 on Compal FL90, a 16 year old laptop. It ran fine, better than Windows 10. But it didn't meet the requirements to allow installation, even though it worked just fine. So some 5 year old computer that doesn't meet requirements for whatever reason would also be just fine. And I don't think people will bother with making hybrid installer just to get Windows 11 running.
Just for fun, this is how fast it could boot up with Windows 8.1:
Link for compatibility
8.1 actually outperformed both Windows XP and Windows Vista this laptop was made for.
Anyway, even with Windows 11, it was still pretty fast. I didn't try any better games, but Asphalt 8 and Asphalt 9 ran on it nicely. It's just to say that old computer doesn't mean it's garbage.
That may be true for the exact hardware you used, and the exact tests you have done. For Microsoft the problem would be that they need to actively continue supporting older and older devices. At some point it makes sense to drop active support. If it works, that's fine, but they won't continue testing and fixing for unsupported configurations.
They don't have to. It could just give a warning with something along the lines "Your current hardware setup is not supported by Windows® 11. By continuing you acknowledge that you're proceeding with the upgrade at your own risk with no guarantees from Microsoft® and that you won't be entitled to any support from Microsoft. The risks include but are not limited to: OS failing to boot-up; frequent BSOD; programs unable to install; certain parts of Windows® operating system not working; data loss; non-functioning or only partially functioning hardware; violation of applicable laws; permanent hardware damage; or causing damages to property and/or bodily injury, including death as a result of improperly functioning drivers. While we understand this may seem harsh, we do not know how the hardware will perform under these conditions and therefore we want you to understand the potential dangers and that you are responsible for any repercussions. We strongly recommend upgrading your hardware to meet minimum requirements for running Windows 11."
"Do you wish to continue with the upgrade?"
Hello from a third would country 👋
Most people here buy computers used that are already pretty old. I can’t see windows cutting off support without offering some kind of upgrade path to this old hardware. Otherwise there will be millions of people used unsupported devices.
Because windows 11 is ass
Good thing you don't even need to think about switching for another two years then.
Because you think they should pay more for a product they already bought or because privacy and security are not important?
I said they didn't have to think bout it for another two years...none of what you're saying makes sense in relation to that. Its good they don't need to worry about it (yet), because the issues it may cause them is still far away.
Two years isn't that long, and in 2 years Windows 11 will still be ass.
I'm on Linux, I'm not even relevant to this conversation.
Because it works perfectly fucking fine and people are using it and windows upgrades are more effort than not upgrading. That's really it.
Because it's forced obsolescence by a convicted monopolist. Microsoft is effectively withholding security updates from computers built before 2018 or so with the arbitrary TPM requirement to install Win11. While I don't expect them to support everything forever, this is another step along their journey to make PCs like cellphones. Fixed support periods for no reason other than they want you buying new ones every x years. Next up will be widespread locked down bootloaders so you can't install Linux if you wanted to. Throw away the old and buy new. Mamma needs more quarterly revenue.
I work on an OS whose oldest in-service major release will finally go deprecated in its TWENTY-SEVENTH year of life.
We're not getting upset at a mere decade. 10 years is kinda cute.
I think people are posse dat the boeing-like "safety is an add-on" mentality that sells security patches like a "don't nose in" feature on a max8.
What OS?
Industry standard is 5-6 years of support. After that, you replace the PC anyway.
you really dont have to though
In enterprise, you generally do.
You don't have to throw it away, just sell it, donate it or use it privately.
no? if theres no need to upgrade machine you just dont. most enterprise do because that shit is not supported anymore, so if they are internet enabled they dont have much choice.
“Don’t have to” and “don’t” are different things. I’ve never been in an enterprise environment that kept PCs much beyond their 2/3 year service window.
In fact, they messed up and got consumer hardware once. They EOLd the devices at 6 months when they realized they only got a month of support.
Really depends on the industry I guess...we meet a lot of old XP and Win7 machines when visiting sites. Engineering stations rarely get updated unless the hardwares breaks, and a lot of software used to service the machines/production line from the engineering station often don't run on a never OS.
Technologically, Window is great. There is no denying that, and if anything some the dated (+ insecure) things on it is the result of its own success, i.e. the app installation and management process, as it is hard to convince billions of people to do anything different.
On the other hand, the management of the company is the biggest problem with everything in and around Window. First, there is no single business model; MS sells you a 1 time licence for the OS itself, but then constantly try to harvest and sell your data (with ads everywhere in Windows 11), and if you want to do any office work then you have to pay a subscription for MS 365. Last but not least, they keep breaking things every few updates, i.e. I actually failed one of my university course because OneDrive decided that my report don’t need to exist after an update (in 2018).