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With our (German) military history, I hope so and let the cool heads prevail.
Easy: have a provision that if AfD or anybody like them ever gets into government, all the MIC and weapons stockpiles will be handed to surrounding non-Orban-stan EU countries or NATO itself.
Mate, have you not noticed the authoritarian measures in Germany to silence criticism of the Gaza Genocide, not all that dissimilar to what the US is doing?!
The rot of Racial Discrimination and the tendency to use Force to silence dissent crosses most of German politics, the AfD being but the current pinnacle of it (easily replaced so long those very fields keep getting watered and fertilized by the rest of the German political body).
People in power in Germany NOW are the very opposite of Humanists who equally care for other people merely because they're human beings, and it would be very dangerous for the rest of Europe to rely on the goodwill of those in power in Germany even if the threat of the AfD was stopped.
And who is supposed to enforce that mechanism? That would require stationing a few hundred thousand soldiers from all over NATO to be stationed in German bases and eye their "allies" carefully, make sure they are the ones handling the stockpiles etc.
That is completely unrealistic.
Well, we have historians who think it necessary to introduce the old traditions again. One of them: a historian responsible for shaping government policy concerning the military:
https://archive.ph/2025.05.04-185800/https://www.zeit.de/kultur/2025-05/wehrtuechtigkeit-8-mai-parkfriedhof-lichterfelde-soldaten/komplettansicht
But we are progressive too, feminists fantasising about protecting their families with M16s in street fights with Russians are a thing as well.
So, don’t get your hopes up
Wehrmacht were the baddies not because they had breeches, sabres, trumpets and did goosestepping.
So there's really nothing problematic with military traditions. Morale is important even for corporations.
Yeah, all dandy when you kinda ignore what all that signifies. Corporations are a great example, for they are pretty perfect fascist organisations. All really nothing problematic.
All that signifies that a military is a hierarchical structure intended to impose your will upon some other group by force, hurting, maiming and killing people on scale.
That is unfortunately a required module.
As far as I can tell, this historian says in the article that a soldier is more than an extension of democracy but also needs to be able to actually fight and hence not only needs 'role models' for ehtos/attitude but also for acquiring military skills.
He criticises that we (Germany) try to hide the bitter reality of the military behind a purely bureaucratic façade, while the actual soldiers risking their lives deserve a more honest and open treatment.
No. It might seem that way superficially, but that’s not the case. It’s such a common place that soldiers have to acquire military skills, it’s laughable to pretend that the German state or bureaucracy sort of forgot about that. He explicitly criticises the German military’s directive that the Wehrmacht can’t serve as a traditional role model for the Bundeswehr, and he only implicitly, at least in this publication, wants to see the military traditions of Wehrmacht and Prussia, reinstated. The reasons why the Wehrmacht should never be a fucking role model for the Bundeswehr has been discussed at length and brought to an end (it seemed) in the 90s. It’s a fucking disgrace that all this reactive bullshit is becoming fashionable again. It’s only possible because they pretend that there’s never been a broad public and scientific discussion about these matters in Germany. Where in fact these were the reason why there is a changed attitude towards military traditions. And it took till 2018 for German politics to acknowledge that. And now we’re back to square one, fuck.
That is not the point he's making. He says that while we (as in the general public) like to make the Bundeswehr appear as a "clean" entirely "bureaucratic" object with a large focus on questions of ethos/attitude, we closed our eyes to the inevitable military nature of the Bundeswehr. This is understandable, given our history, but the soldiers who actually risk their lives don't only need role models in terms of ethos/attitude, but also in terms of skills. Maybe I overlooked it, but I can't see where he "explicitly criticises the German military’s directive that the Wehrmacht can’t serve as a traditional role model for the Bundeswehr" and especially not where he "wants to see the military traditions of Wehrmacht and Prussia, reinstated"
That's why I'd like to see where he makes that point. We then can get angry all we want, but first I'd like to see what precisely to get angry at.
Note I found this article after I got that weird feeling about Neitzel in the Zeit article.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/07/19/wehr-j19.html
I don’t think this is too alarmist. It is no coincidence that Germany’s role in WWI also gets downplayed by these types, eg Münkler. Again, these reactionary debates create the illusion that historians of the 20th century somehow got it wrong or that there never was any debate about these topics. As if something like the Fischer controversy never happened. It’s scary.
In the previous article, this is what I based my suspicions on:
I don't think it is very objective, either. The article cites an interview in Spiegel in 2017 which can also be found online.
Your article:
Actual Spiegel article [deepl translation]:
Neither does he say the Bundeswehr must stand in the tradition of the Wehrmacht nor does he say that "tank grenadiers and paratroopers" can hardly be offered non-combative role models but that they cannot be only offered non-combative role models.
Your article:
Acrual Spiegel article [deepl translation]
While your article wants to make it seem that Neitzel is praising a Nazi war hero for this, in the actual article Neitzel explains his views on Lent which are a bit more complicated than told in your article.
Also, they conveniently left out the parts where Neitzel explains that the "exemplary manner" in which a person can act even in a total war for a criminal regime (which he does not apologise or trivialise, btw) can be not only as a successful soldier but also in resistance or in leadership.
Your article:
Actual Spiegel article [deepl translation]:
He absolutely doesn't say that Hitler's Wehrmacht as a whole should be revered but that at the core, in both Wehrmacht and Bundeswehr (or any other military), the core demands on soldiers are always the same: a desire to win, to proceed and to be loyal. Futhermore, units that were first developed in the 30's inevitably also use tactics of one of the biggest armies at that time and extensively developing these units, the Wehrmacht. Is that really surprising?
I encourage you to read the original article, as yours seems to be quite biased and I think its always best to aim for an objective and original source where possible.
Yes, but the paragraph doesn't start there. The sentence before that is vital for the meaning, hence we shouldn't omit it:
His point: while in the early years, a continutiy to the Wehrmacht was almost inevitable, this continutiy now almost faded to non-existence as time passed on and we don't want this continuity anymore. However, we haven't tackled the question yet of, as he says it, how an army such as the Bundeswehr fits into our democracy. He criticises the lack of an honest military culture in Germany that also accepts that there are soldiers that literally train to kill succesfully and prepare to give their lives for this country and the resulting dishonest desire to make the Bundeswehr exist in a sterile vacuum with no historical lineage and as little connection to the rest of the society as possible.
Thanks for engaging!
Unfortunately I don’t have much time atm, but I jotted down some ideas of what I wanted to reply. Since I guess we’re pretty much on our own in this thread by now, I relay my thoughts in German:
Das komische an der Sache, und das lässt eben auch viel Spielraum für Interpretation, ist, dass er gar nicht genau erklärt, was ihm eigentlich fehlt. Bei der Bundeswehr.
Und warum das was ihm fehlt er in diesen alten Klamotten zu finden hofft.
Er spricht mal von Ethos, mal von Taktiken.
Irgendwie sei hier die Tradition gebrochen.
Aber was soll das denn genau sein?
Wenn er sagt, die Panzer müssten halt die Nazimanöver üben, klingt das, als hätte die Zeit von 50 - 2022 gar nicht existiert.
Keine Panzer, keine Manöver.
Ich mein, von mir aus, kann man vielleicht sagen, zwischen 1990 und jetzt war nicht viel mit Verteidigung los, aber den kalten Krieg gab’s ja auch. War da nix?
Ausserdem: Das war doch immerhin Verteidigung, was man ja jetzt ebenfalls wünscht, wie es heisst, und ich meine mich zu erinnern, dass die Wehrmacht mehr so auf Angriff gebürstet war.
Warum ausgerechnet darauf wieder Bezug nehmen?
Ebenso die Frage wie die Bundeswehr zur Demokratie passt. Müssen wir uns wirklich diese Frage stellen? Sind das nicht auch erledigte Debatten aus dem 20. Jahrhundert?