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Note I found this article after I got that weird feeling about Neitzel in the Zeit article.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/07/19/wehr-j19.html
I don’t think this is too alarmist. It is no coincidence that Germany’s role in WWI also gets downplayed by these types, eg Münkler. Again, these reactionary debates create the illusion that historians of the 20th century somehow got it wrong or that there never was any debate about these topics. As if something like the Fischer controversy never happened. It’s scary.
In the previous article, this is what I based my suspicions on:
I don't think it is very objective, either. The article cites an interview in Spiegel in 2017 which can also be found online.
Your article:
Actual Spiegel article [deepl translation]:
Neither does he say the Bundeswehr must stand in the tradition of the Wehrmacht nor does he say that "tank grenadiers and paratroopers" can hardly be offered non-combative role models but that they cannot be only offered non-combative role models.
Your article:
Acrual Spiegel article [deepl translation]
While your article wants to make it seem that Neitzel is praising a Nazi war hero for this, in the actual article Neitzel explains his views on Lent which are a bit more complicated than told in your article.
Also, they conveniently left out the parts where Neitzel explains that the "exemplary manner" in which a person can act even in a total war for a criminal regime (which he does not apologise or trivialise, btw) can be not only as a successful soldier but also in resistance or in leadership.
Your article:
Actual Spiegel article [deepl translation]:
He absolutely doesn't say that Hitler's Wehrmacht as a whole should be revered but that at the core, in both Wehrmacht and Bundeswehr (or any other military), the core demands on soldiers are always the same: a desire to win, to proceed and to be loyal. Futhermore, units that were first developed in the 30's inevitably also use tactics of one of the biggest armies at that time and extensively developing these units, the Wehrmacht. Is that really surprising?
I encourage you to read the original article, as yours seems to be quite biased and I think its always best to aim for an objective and original source where possible.
Yes, but the paragraph doesn't start there. The sentence before that is vital for the meaning, hence we shouldn't omit it:
His point: while in the early years, a continutiy to the Wehrmacht was almost inevitable, this continutiy now almost faded to non-existence as time passed on and we don't want this continuity anymore. However, we haven't tackled the question yet of, as he says it, how an army such as the Bundeswehr fits into our democracy. He criticises the lack of an honest military culture in Germany that also accepts that there are soldiers that literally train to kill succesfully and prepare to give their lives for this country and the resulting dishonest desire to make the Bundeswehr exist in a sterile vacuum with no historical lineage and as little connection to the rest of the society as possible.
Thanks for engaging!
Unfortunately I don’t have much time atm, but I jotted down some ideas of what I wanted to reply. Since I guess we’re pretty much on our own in this thread by now, I relay my thoughts in German:
Das komische an der Sache, und das lässt eben auch viel Spielraum für Interpretation, ist, dass er gar nicht genau erklärt, was ihm eigentlich fehlt. Bei der Bundeswehr.
Und warum das was ihm fehlt er in diesen alten Klamotten zu finden hofft.
Er spricht mal von Ethos, mal von Taktiken.
Irgendwie sei hier die Tradition gebrochen.
Aber was soll das denn genau sein?
Wenn er sagt, die Panzer müssten halt die Nazimanöver üben, klingt das, als hätte die Zeit von 50 - 2022 gar nicht existiert.
Keine Panzer, keine Manöver.
Ich mein, von mir aus, kann man vielleicht sagen, zwischen 1990 und jetzt war nicht viel mit Verteidigung los, aber den kalten Krieg gab’s ja auch. War da nix?
Ausserdem: Das war doch immerhin Verteidigung, was man ja jetzt ebenfalls wünscht, wie es heisst, und ich meine mich zu erinnern, dass die Wehrmacht mehr so auf Angriff gebürstet war.
Warum ausgerechnet darauf wieder Bezug nehmen?
Ebenso die Frage wie die Bundeswehr zur Demokratie passt. Müssen wir uns wirklich diese Frage stellen? Sind das nicht auch erledigte Debatten aus dem 20. Jahrhundert?