this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2023
47 points (78.3% liked)

Asklemmy

43863 readers
1385 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy 🔍

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Cloak@lemmy.ml
mekhos@lemmy.ml
tmpod@lemmy.pt
14specks@lemmy.ml
47
What would you do if Capitalism didn't curb your potential and force you to sell most of your time? (lemy.lol)
submitted 1 year ago by matcha_addict@lemy.lol to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml
140 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

I often daydream about how society would be if we were not forced by society to pigeon hole ourselves into a specialized career for maximizing the profits of capitalists, and sell most of our time for it.

The idea of creating an entire identity for you around your "career" and only specializing in one thing would be ridiculous in another universe. Humans have so much natural potential for breadth, but that is just not compatible with capitalism.

This is evident with how most people develop "hobbies" outside of work, like wood working, gardening, electronics, music, etc. This idea of separating "hobbies" and the thing we do most of our lives (work) is ridiculous.

Here's how my world could be different if I owned my time and dedicated it to the benefit of my own and my community instead of capitalists:

  • more reading, learning and excusing knowledge with others.
  • learn more handy work, like plumbing and wood working. I love customizing my own home!
  • more gardening
  • participate in the transportation system (picking up shifts to drive a bus for example)
  • become a tour guide for my city
  • cook and bake for my neighbors
  • academic research
  • open source software (and non-software) contributions
  • pick up shifts at a café and make coffee, tea and smoothies for people
  • pick up shifts to clean up public spaces, such as parks or my own neighborhood
  • participate in more than one "professions". I studied one type of engineering but work in a completely different engineering. This already proves I can do both, so why not do both and others?

Humans do not like the same thing over and over every day. It's unnatural. But somehow we revolve our whole livelihood around if.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] irmoz@reddthat.com 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You can do everything yourself, or you can cooperate with other people.

Please reread their post. That is what they want, but are unable to do because of capitalism.

Capitalism does not encourage cooperation. It encourages competition and domination. Competition between businesses and individuals, and domination of the working class by the state and capital.

The work one has to do under capitalism, i.e. wage labour, is not simply "cooperation". That would entail an agreement between equals. It is a coercive arrangement enforced by the state in which people must submit to the whims of an employer or else risk joining the ranks of the unemployed, or worse, the homeless, the presence of which is a necessity under capitalism as both a sobering reminder of what's at stake, and also to ensure there are always more people to employ.

You can - to a degree - choose who you work for, but to no extent can you choose whether you work.

[–] ATQ@lemm.ee -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You can - to a degree - choose who you work for, but to no extent can you choose whether you work.

That’s literally how life and any society works. Let’s rewind all the way to the beginning. If OP doesn’t like working in a society they can fuck off to the wilderness. But! Frontier survival would actually be more work and danger and less free time. Or, OP can move. But it turns out Western societies generally have shorter work weeks than the rest of the world. So what’s OP left with? Misplaced angst and the glaring unwillingness to take control of their own life.

[–] irmoz@reddthat.com 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That’s literally how life and any society works.

No, it's really not. Not every society forces you to seek wage labour. This is only the case in capitalism.

Let’s rewind all the way to the beginning. If OP doesn’t like working in a society they can fuck off to the wilderness.

No, they can't. The government would hunt them down. But again, it's not society in general they're against. It's capitalism. It's stunning that you conflate the two.

But! Frontier survival would actually be more work and danger and less free time.

Okay but they weren't gonna do that. Nor is it the only way to not have to do wage labour.

We could instead transition our economy to one that operates on the basis of need instead of profit. Then people can choose how they work, without it defining their life:

For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic.

  • Karl Marx, The German Ideology

Or, OP can move.

Are you really stating this as a genuine option?! Do you know how fucking expensive that is??

But it turns out Western societies generally have shorter work weeks than the rest of the world.

The "rest of the world" predominantly includes other capitalist societies. Ones which the West forcibly made so, and made subservient, forcing down their wages and strongarming them into supplying us with cheap labour and goods. Not the best point you could have made.

So what’s OP left with?

Agitating for class consciousness and solidarity with fellow workers

Misplaced angst and the glaring unwillingness to take control of their own life.

Why is it misplaced? Also, it's quite clear they are more than willing to take control of their life, but have obstacles in the way.

[–] ATQ@lemm.ee -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not every society forces you to seek wage labour. This is only the case in capitalism.

What’s an example of a society that doesn’t require work?

You seem really hung up on the term” wage labor”. That’s not the only way to create or store value. But it is the most efficient. We could completely eliminate “money” but the concept of value would remain. And cooperation would only be more difficult and less efficient if I didn’t want to barter my chicken for your potato. Money, and “wage labor, regardless of who pays your wages, allow for the transfer of goods and services between individuals who don’t need the others goods or services now.

The government would hunt them down.

No they wouldn’t. Because except for your family and friends, nobody gives a fuck about you. It’s hilarious that y’all think this is even a possibility. I mean seriously, if I went missing tomorrow, would you know or care? And if not, why would anyone else?

Are you really stating this as a genuine option?! Do you know how fucking expensive that is??

This is absolutely an option. People all over the world do it every day.

Agitating for class consciousness and solidarity with fellow workers

Moving seems easier, quicker, and more effective. But this could work too. Carry on.

Anyway, always fun to chat with college communists. Have a great day.

[–] irmoz@reddthat.com 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's stunning to me that you can't conceive of another way for goods to be stored or distributed. Community stores? Mutual aid? Never heard of these? There is no need for money or any analogue. Bartering is also kind of a myth. No one ever participated in bartering on a large scale, even before money. People just gave each other things, all the time.

Relevant terms for further reading:

Mutual aid

Gift economy

Library economy

Also, yes, the government would hunt you down because you'd no longer be paying taxes. They kinda don't like that.

Moving is not an option if you don't have enough money, and no way to earn it.

One last thing - I left college a decade ago. :)