this post was submitted on 12 May 2024
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Need this nationwide. I hate having fees added on to the price of what I'm ordering.

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[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 204 points 6 months ago (30 children)

Only fees that are entirely optional — like leaving a tip for staff — can be left out of the posted price.

Wrong move. They should have outlawed tipping too. No more hiring for shit wages and leaving adequate compensation up to chance. Bump up the menu price and pay your staff an enticing salary.

[–] Eezyville@sh.itjust.works 89 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Agreed. I hate tipping. Some tippers will hate for tipping to go away because they can use their charisma to make a lot of money. More power to them but tipping is just a way for these businesses to keep their labor low. Many other countries don't have tipping and can still have restaurants. For some reason the US needs tipping to be able to have restaurants.

[–] cm0002@lemmy.world 34 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Some tippers will hate for tipping to go away because they can use their charisma to make a lot of money

The funny thing is even if restaurants are forced to pay a living wage and not have tips as a subsidy, these servers would actually still be able to do that. Maybe not AS much as before, but between that and an actual living wage is bet they still would come out ahead lol

[–] iAmTheTot@kbin.social 22 points 6 months ago (5 children)

A lot (not all) of workers in the service industry like tipping, actually. They get cash a lot of the time, which they like, and can under report on their taxes. Most people opposed to banning tipping, in my experience, are actually the people receiving the tips.

[–] krashmo@lemmy.world 38 points 6 months ago (2 children)

And yet many of those people are also the first to complain about having inconsistent paychecks. Funny how that works

[–] hark@lemmy.world 13 points 6 months ago

Something tells me these same workers wouldn't like tipping so much if people didn't feel obligated to tip under threat of food tampering (real or imagined) or other threat/shame tactics.

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[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 61 points 6 months ago (6 children)

A restaurant in my area recently put up signs saying they pay their staff a living wage, raised prices, and forbaid tips. More like this, please.

[–] RecallMadness@lemmy.nz 19 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Meanwhile, most places in London pay at least the minimum wage (not lower for waitstaff, but not necessarily living wage) and tack on an optional 12-20% service charge, and don’t give it to staff.

You have to determine if the service charge goes to staff, awkwardly refuse the service charge, and (optionally) tip your waitstaff in cash (and if you do, ask they split it with back of house)

The times we’ve done it seems to make the staff happy. Still a shit thing to do.

[–] SeaJ@lemm.ee 15 points 6 months ago (2 children)

A few places in Seattle experimented with different ways to go tipping when the city raised the minimum wage across the board without making an exception for tipped wages. A few forbade tipping a few had a standardized tip percentage. A few had a surcharge added on. Many made it clear how they did it. Shitheads like Tom Douglas did not make it clear and added a 4% charge on the bill noting that it was a living wage fee. I don't go to the ones who were shady about it. Largely it has all returned to standard typing. There are a few coffee shops like Seattle Coffee Works and an ice cream shop (Mollie Moon's) that do not allow tips.

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[–] SuiXi3D@fedia.io 24 points 6 months ago

Agreed, but let’s not let perfect be the enemy of good here.

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[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 155 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Do it like in Europe. Prices are all inclusive, any kind of tip is just a thank you for outstanding service, and not a necessity so the waitress won't starve.

It is a sales business with service, like buying clothes. Can you imagine having to tip the salesperson in a boutique?

[–] jxk@sh.itjust.works 30 points 6 months ago (3 children)

It really depends on the country. France and Belgium, as you wrote. Germany, they expect a tip and look at you angry if you don't. Italy, they add a service charge at the end that is nowhete advertised. Turkey, they invent a random price at the end, complaints only taken if you're local. (I'm slightly exaggerating)

[–] Redfugee@lemmy.world 38 points 6 months ago (2 children)

In Germany it's typical to do so just to make the change easier, you might catch an angry glance by making them make small change.

Italy will list a coperto or servizio on the menu.

[–] bitwaba@lemmy.world 27 points 6 months ago (4 children)

It's common place in London to include a 12.5% service charge on the bill now. But it's not mandatory. You can literally just be like "please remove the service charge".

It's kind of interesting because as an American it's like I get to witness the invention of service charges in real time. If you hear employee complaints or warnings from people online they'll say "the restaurant puts it into a common pool and only pays the employees a small portion of it" or "if you want to tip the staff, remove the charge and leave them cash" or "the business isn't legally required to share any of the service charge with the employee".

It's like you get to see the UK go through all the bad phases of tipping culture before we get to the version we have in the US while everyone knows the winning move is to just not start down the tipping path in the first place.

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[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Italy, they add a service charge at the end that is nowhete advertised.

It's called the Pane & Coperto (or just Coperto Fee) and typically amounts to a cover charge to enter, regardless of what you order.

Honestly not the worst way to run a restaurant, given that every table costs some baseline amount of labor and resources to tend.

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[–] teft@lemmy.world 13 points 6 months ago

Same in colombia. The price advertised is the price you pay. No need to calculate the tax in your head in the grocery store, just add everything and you’re golden.

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[–] TenderfootGungi@lemmy.world 114 points 6 months ago (10 children)

We need European pricing where the price is the price. I would go as far as making asking for a tip illegal too. Have restaurants put on their menu that prices include the tip. Raise minimum wage for restaurant workers.

And not just for restaurants, everything, from airline tickets to concert tickets, etc.

[–] baseless_discourse@mander.xyz 24 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (7 children)

I think clear signage and message on the bill indicating "tipping is optional, service charges is included in the menu price" should suffice.

Making tipping illegal goes too far, but I am okay with implementing it for couple decades, in order to correct a bad habit.

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 16 points 6 months ago (1 children)

OP said “asking for a tip”. If I want to tip a particularly good server experience, everyone should be free to do so. But asking for it, and it comes to mind those places that explicitly stipulate that 10% is minimum mandatory tipping, should be illegal. That's a hidden fee, not a tip.

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[–] Kid_Thunder@kbin.social 110 points 6 months ago (5 children)

The restaurant owner arguments are all super weak as usual.

"Menu prices will rise!"

No shit, but everyone was already paying the prices but now you can't just surprise patrons with the increase.

"There will be pullback. People will lose jobs and hours!"

Doubtful but even if true, that means that they knew they were lying to customers and clawing extra charges that they wouldn't know about already.

"'They' are thinking restaurants will absorb the costs"

Not exactly but they will have to compete with pricing as it should be.

They're just trying to get away with playing the same game Telcos have gotten away with for far too many decades.

[–] experbia@lemmy.world 28 points 6 months ago

"Menu prices will rise!"

nothing a bunch of ~~two-bit con artists~~ MBAs hate more than an informed ~~mark~~ customer.

The actual good businesses run by good people will not suffer by this. only those that relied on duping their customers.

[–] brygphilomena@lemmy.world 18 points 6 months ago (3 children)

That's what pisses me off, if the consumer knows what they'll actually have to pay they won't buy.

They are arguing that they should be able to lie to the consumer and trick them. They think the consumer shouldn't be informed to make a decision on what is right for them. And once again, they are putting the business before the customer.

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[–] Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works 80 points 6 months ago

One step closer to the fucking common sense of the rest of the world where the price you see for something is the price you actually pay. Nobody cares about a number that's mathematically related to the price they have to pay, just tell me.

[–] Sludgehammer@lemmy.world 60 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I'd really love it if they did like some countries and added the sales tax(es) to the sticker price in stores too

[–] Eezyville@sh.itjust.works 26 points 6 months ago

There are a lot of things I wished they did similar to other countries such as VAT. Hiding all these fees seems deceptive from both the business and the govt sneaking in their taxes.

[–] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 55 points 6 months ago (5 children)

Fees are predatory on people who are swayed by lower advertised cost. Basically, they are extorting the way many people's brains work. It's just another way to keep the not rich from ever catching up. Not just in dollars, but time. If you try to price compare, you have to sink a ton of time into uncovering all the fees. The rich just don't have to worry about that. So it ends up as a time tax.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 21 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

It's called a Bait and Switch and is a form of Fraud.

It's just that in the US, the grey area between Fraud and "Sharp business practice" is legally way broader than the rest of the Developed World.

Kudos to California to have forces some clarification on at least this one form of misrepresentation/false-advertising/fraud.

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[–] SeaJ@lemm.ee 53 points 6 months ago (2 children)

"If it's in the core price of the menu, there will be a pullback" in patrons' spending, she told NPR shortly before the attorney general released the guidelines. "There are some people, I think, that are hoping that the restaurants will just absorb that cost, because we've seen people say, 'Oh, it's too expensive with the service charge.' "

If you add bullshit charges that are not added into the price on the menu, I don't return ever. So you may lose a couple patrons initially but they'll be back once they understand that is the general price. You will also get me back since there is no more possibility of bullshit charges.

[–] Wrench@lemmy.world 48 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Oh, so you mean people won't order your food if they know what the real price is? Well... fuck you

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[–] NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

unless it's previously posted clearly to see before I order, I'd just walk out and not pay, because that is otherwise called "fraud."

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[–] Furbag@lemmy.world 51 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Great, now do tipping next.

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[–] Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 39 points 6 months ago (23 children)

This might be a weird question but when people tip for a good service, what exactly is good service?

If I go to a restaurant I expect them to take my order, bring me the food and when I'm done bring me the check. That's it. I want nothing else from them. Should I tip them for not spitting in my food or not stumbling and throwing it all over my clothes?

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[–] bluewing@lemm.ee 35 points 6 months ago

Minnesota is currently working on a similar law to stop surcharges and just have a final price.

[–] Facebones@reddthat.com 35 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Isn't it fun how "the price should just be the price" makes you a filthy commie in 2024?

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[–] MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world 19 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I realize when I go out for a special event, like I did Friday night to see Harry Connick, Jr. play with the Boston Pops at Symphony Hall that I wasn't going to quibble about costs.

However, after the non-optional 18% "gratuity", they also had an additional "server" tip field. Ha, GFY, bitches!

[–] Glytch@lemmy.world 13 points 6 months ago (3 children)

At that point just increase the price of menu items and pay people what their worth instead of lying about the final bill

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[–] Trollception@sh.itjust.works 16 points 6 months ago (4 children)

My new favorite is a hotel tax I just saw today which conveniently isn't included in the room rate.

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[–] foggy@lemmy.world 14 points 6 months ago

4oz smashed patty $17

Add bun $1

Add cheese $2-$4

Add $1: lettuce, tomato, onion

Add $3: grilled onion, any sauce

Add $7: sauteed onionz melted cheese, sauce +bechamel, fried egg, kimchi

Add $17: salmon

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