Can we please also mandate landlords to update appliances in rental units if they’re not footing the electric/gas bill? So tired of paying obscene rates for inefficient appliances that I have no control over.
this post was submitted on 30 Apr 2024
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In the case of hot water heaters, they need to replace them every 20-30 years as they corrode, which means that the old one will leak and create expensive water damage if not replaced. They'll buy what's on the market, which means ones that meet the new standards.
Since last year I think there is a law like that in France. For renting an apartment it need to be audited to get an energy performance certificate.
If the performance is too low (low insulation, inefficient heating system ...) then the apartment can't be rented, or if it is rented the judge can allow the renter not to pay rent until the renovations have been done by the landlord to bring the performance to an adequate level.
The minimum performance level is going up every few years until 2030 or something like that.
That sounds like a great policy, hopefully other countries will follow suit!
The new rules would shift most new electric water heaters to heat-pump technology, which typically uses less than half the amount of electricity that many older models use.
I know one very specific person that will be delighted by the news!
What we need in this world is someone willing to do a 4 part video on them, and buy 2 of them.
𝆕𝆕 chillingly smooth jazz 𝆕𝆕
I got my heat pump installed two weeks ago and I am LOVING it.
I had gas previously, and I hated having to organise the gas company to come and switch the bottles every few months.
200L of hot water does my family of 3 just fine.
Oh boy, here we go, Gas stove 2: Electric Boogaloo
Per the article:
There is no gas stove ban. Rather, the D.O.E.’s final energy-efficiency guidelines for gas stoves amounted to a slight tightening of older standards, and about 97 percent of models on the market already meet those standards.
Yea but your facts and logic won't stop the right wingers from screeching about it like Biden is deploying a secret stove police force that will break into your home and steal your stove
I expect a lot of "experts" playing the "ackshually electric appliances powered by coal are worse than gas" card, ignoring the continually declining rate of coal power production globally, but especially in the US.
The ironic part is that, according to the article, 97% of gas stoves on the market already meet the updated requirements.
The further irony is that most of the red states where people make a big deal over this shit overwhelmingly run electric. Running fossil gas infrastructure was something that largely was only done in the rich and progressive places, originally. Even in those red states a lot of the places that have gas are a little urban areas that lean comparably or entirely blue.
Republicans care deeply about their right to keep their gas stoves irrespective of the fact that they didn't have them in the first place.
The main force fueling all this handkerchief wringing is obviously just lobbyists for the gas industry though. I'm sure that goes without saying but I'm going to say it anyway.
One note for anyone getting ready to switch to a heat pump water heater themselves: the fuckers are pretty loud. Make sure it's somewhere where the noise won't bother you when it's installed.
Newer models are getting quieter but the damn things are almost as loud as a small, modern window air conditioning unit when running.
Mine was installed right in the dead center of my house. Works great but I have to close several doors to not hear it at night (and I have it set up to mostly run overnight, though in someone else's situation it might be possible to have it run while everyone is out of the house at work or some such instead).
Volume varies a lot by model. There are quieter ones.
My heatpump is outside with the heat buffer inside. One can't really hear if it's running from maybe five meters away, unless it's a very quiet evening.
That's not my experience living here in Japan with one. Might be different makers/standards/requirements per country, though.
Isn't anyone gonna comment that in the picture there's a flying end of a bed on the wall??
Damn, I first read the headline as water haters.
I still like that headline better
Hydronic acid is deadly.
Hmm, I couldn’t find anything about tankless heaters. I absolutely love that I never run out of hot water, especially after my wife takes her shower.
Per the actual rule:
As discussed in section II.B.3, DOE is finalizing standards for all consumer water heaters, with the exception of gas-fired instantaneous water heaters, in this Final Rule.
So there has been no change to the rules for tankless heaters.
Believe It or not there are electrical tankless heaters. I actually installed one not too long ago because it made sense in a very odd application.
Mostly they're a terrible idea though.
Yeah, they're pretty rare and almost never the best option. I don't think I've actually encountered one.
We’ve considered switching to an electric tankless WH. What makes them a poor choice?
Extreme energy use for pretty low deltas on temperature. Best possible efficiency is 100%, far less than the 2.5+ cop a heat pump unit will get you. If it's at all manageable, get the heat pump.
Frankly, their inefficiency means the emissions they cause are still pretty bad unless you know your energy source is more renewable than most.
But they don't need venting, which is nice. They do take a big fat electrical connection though - the one I installed was two 2 pole 40a breakers - hopefully you have at least 200A service. Mostly they work as intended.
Thanks. That makes sense. We installed a gas tankless after looking into electric tankless. The lack of venting looked really attractive until I blanched at the wiring we'd need to pull. My experience with tanked electrics was that they take a long time to recover. Is this also true of heat-pump based tanked WHs?
Most of them are actually coal fired.
Is that because they were already efficient or because they can't reasonably be made more sense efficient?
I would assume both. They transfer basically all the heat generated into the water and only heat when water is being used.
We switched to an externally mounted tankless when our big ole water heater conked out. It's way more energy efficient, but everyone has to run the water for a good minute until it kicks in and makes it through the pipes
I'll look into a heat pump once this one dies, but running water during a drought is just wrong.
This Old House has episodes where they have a small recirculation pump to keep lines primed with warm water.
This kills the efficiency gain of not keeping a hot tank though.
Good, now do the same for AI datacenters and cryptomining.
Tankless is just a good idea for everybody.
Care to elaborate? Tankless electric is way less efficient than heat pump storage, and requires like 120 amps. It's terrible. Tankless gas is, well gas, so that's not going to work if you want to stop emitting carbon.