Asklemmy

when the greater evil doesn't want me dead just for existing and isn't trying to destroy democracy

Never. Just vote. Be a grain of sand on the scales that keeps things from going to absolute shit. It costs you almost nothing, just a tiny amount of time.

You're probably gonna continue reading doomer posts on the internet, getting grey hairs and high blood pressure

But the one chance you can do something to change things

You just won't?

Not voting is voting for the greater of 2 evils.

Never. That is a position for the naive.

Until it actually boils over or we get rid of first past the post (and you'll need MASSIVE protests to do the latter.)

Fuck accelerationists. They're either dumbfucks who think their Apocalypse Badass Man fantasies will come true (and contrary to popular belief this person absolutely exists on the left,) or yuppies who know they have an easy out in the form of either a work visa in somewhere like Canada or leeching from a developing country working remotely and not contributing to where they live at all (and so many of these yuppies are self-proclaimed collectivists.) The rest of us are getting out of here in a casket or a refugee boat if it boils over. So how about we take at least a modicum of effort to take care of our society. Voting is the bare minimum.

The choice is pretty clear cut. Either vote Democrat or help out a convicted rapist/fraudster who also happens to be a Nazi.

Given the opportunity to vote in its current form, I'll keep voting no matter how evil the lesser of two evils is. By definition it's better than the alternative

When a third party candidate isn’t some kind of batshit crazy, actually exercises greater ethics, and has a chance in hell of winning.

And “last time” is pretty optimistic.

I vote third party every time. I don't care if they're more likely to lose, the whole point of a democracy is that we vote honestly and that every voice actually serves as a voice which goes against the herd mentality. So I've never voted for the "lesser of two evils", I've been voting for actual good people every time because they friggin' earned it, not the people who have leveraged into victory based on the fact they have victory in the first place.

Better question for the "lesser of two evils" crowd: What's the endgame here? In my experience, the strategy is to try to hold together enough of a Democratic voting bloc by browbeating and berating leftists to keep the greater evil out of office, and the result is that politics has marched steadily to the right, Now we're teetering on the edge of fascism, with a Democratic President supporting genocide in another country and breaking strikes like he was ol' Ronnie. We can't go on like this. It can't work forever. Eventually, the threat of a fascist getting into office will be a reality; they only have to win once, and we have to win every time. It could very well be 2024 that they do it.

At what point do we attempt something better? As commentators like Thomas Pikkety have written, there are important issues that transcend the traditional left-right spectrum, that could peel away a lot of working-class voters who feel abandoned by the neo-liberal policies of the Democratic Party.

Do we just keep voting for the lesser evil in the hopes that we can do it long enough for some unforeseen, future political shift to just sort of happen before the lesser evil is also a fascist?

That would be 12 years ago! I didn't see any acceptable future for me in North America, and immigrated to Vietnam. I integrated reasonably well, and this is my culture now. You could say my last vote was with my feet, labor, and wallet :D

I don't hate the West or anything, in fact I wish you all the best! However I am fully invested in working towards the success of my new country and this part of the world in general.

We have preferential voting here, so I stick the lesser of two evils in front of the evil party but behind the people I actually want in power.

I will always vote (but i'm in europe)

Before I choosing not to vote, I would vote for someone I think deserves the vote most even if the chances of them winning are practically 0.

2020 was the last time. I'm abstaining until either party can put out a candidate who will actually help me or the American "experiment" reaches its natural conclusion. I really don't care anymore.

I dunno, pretty much my entire life it's been choosing between degrees of evil in one party and degrees of capitalist greed sucking from another. None of the alternative parties have fielded a candidate I could support either, but that's not the point

The point is that there aren't two evil parties. There's one of those, and one other party that's full of shit, but not evil. Then there's a bunch that are just useless because we have a first past the post system. Not that any of them are exactly bastions of goodness, even the ones that are closer to my views. They're all fucking politicians. Never fully trust anyone that wants that kind of power and authority.

But, let's be clear here. There's only one party that literally courts neo-nazi votes and works to undo not only legal rights, but human rights.

It was 2004.

Voting the lesser evil is a downward spiral of evil. If no candidates can meet the minimum standard, abstain on that race and fill out the rest of the ballot. It sucks, but it sucks a lot less than enabling whichever monster can be slightly less monstrous for the ten months before the election.

I'll keep voting for the less evil option until I'm physically unable to vote.

The blessing of having MMP is .. you don't have to vote for a lesser evil! You can actually vote for a good option!

I did! And they didn't get in because Money! It's fucking awesome!

In 2020 I voted 3rd party. No illusion of them winning I just wanted to vote in a way that could help demonstrate to the 2 parties that there's a important segment of Americans that they're overlooking.

If a third party gets enough of a percentile where they could decide if Reps or Dems win we might see them adapt to have policies that cater closer to the desires of that third party.

But what's more important is your local elections. The president is much less important in your life than your governor or mayor is.

When the greater of two evils who might win if I don't isn't a raging narcissistic fascist.

As long as it takes until the youth voting rate matches that of the elderly and we get good options that actually change anything...

But that would rely on us getting out and voting instead of bitching online so I don't have much hope.

The chances of your vote being the one to change the outcome of a large election are extremely small, so it doesn't really matter that much what you do with your ballot. However, if you have the means to influence other people's votes, that might count for something. Therefore, I think it's good to discourage people from voting for the apparent lesser of two evils. If you vote, try to vote as best as you can for your class interests. (Chances are that you belong to the working class.) Don't feel bad about abstaining if the candidates to choose from represent class interests that are counter to yours to the extent that you can barely tell them apart.