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D&D Next - 5e Discussion

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What kind of rule changes have you folks tried at your tables, and how have they worked out for your games? Good? Bad?

Two of the houserules I implement for every campaign I run:

  1. No multiclassing until after 5th level, and no further multiclassing unless you have at least 5 levels in all your existing classes. I do this for two reasons, the first being to ensure that every character has access to extra attack/third level spells and slots/some other equivalent before they start dipping elsewhere, and to keep the munchkins at my table from taking multiple 1-3 level dips into classes just to set up a niche wombo combo. Even then, I'm pretty stringent on what I'll allow from a storytelling perspective - I want to know what motivates your Paladin to dip into Warlock besides getting to use CHA for attack and damage modifiers.

  2. Instead of an ASI or a Feat, every ASI level gives a +1 and a feat. My players and I like this rule because it allows them to pick something fun at those levels instead of feeling obligated to dump straight into the primary stat, and encourages grabbing those fun half-feats like Actor or Linguist that would otherwise go by the wayside.

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[–] Vaggumon@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I've got a few home rules I've used for years.

  1. Healing Potions: Drinking is a bonus action, using an action player gets the max value. Potion can be thrown 15 ft to a downed target as a bonus action, DC 10 DEX check, brings target to 1 HP. Thrower can choose to spend an action to throw the potion, then they have to pass a DC 12+1 DEX for every 5 ft from target, but if they pass target can roll the healing.

  2. Team inspiration: Group shares a pool of inspiration. Up to a max of 5 that can be used at anytime.

  3. Inspired saving throws: Players can spend their reaction and a point of inspiration to gain a saving throw re-roll.

  4. Initiative Swap: Allow the players to swap initiative rolls with one another before combat starts. Sometimes players have an idea that requires teamwork based on a specific order they’d like to act in, and this allows them to always get the order they want.

Additional smaller rules:

A) Anything you can do.... can be done to you.

B) Roleplay can give modifiers to any roll, or can negate critical hits/success.

C) Every interaction is a chance to roleplay.

D) Once combat begins, diplomacy becomes much harder.

E) When leveling Up, Players can roll or take the average HP, whichever is larger.

F) At Player level 1, Player can take a feat.

G) Caster can spend 2+1 hit dice to recover 1 spell slot up to lvl 3 during a short rest. Can gain additional level for an added hit die per level up to 5th.

[–] LoamImprovement@ttrpg.network 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

BA potions are another one I usually include as well, even the nonhealing ones. I had a gut reaction against a fighter PC using a potion that applied greater invisibility and then making six attacks at advantage using action surge, but I thought, "fuck it, they're expending a valuable resource to have this moment, let them have it," and it was good.

[–] Vaggumon@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

I'm the type of DM that loves for my players to feel like badasses, so I'm all for them pulling off stuff that may or may not be exactly RAW. I had a high level sorcerer want to sneak up behind a BBEG and put his hand over their mouth and cast fireball at 9th level. I allowed it and they had a great moment that the rest of the table loved. They felt super powerful and were able to save the day. The players still talk about that moment years later.

[–] kilpatds@mastodon.social 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

@LoamImprovement For 5th edition, I've overwhelmingly played in AL, so ...

But I've seen a LOT of "inspiration can be used for a reroll" and "inspiration can be shared across the table".

I've also seen (too much) "Invisibility == Hidden", which I hate and don't use when I run. I've also seen a large number of variations of the bonus-action-casting rule

AL kinda inherently runs with a "every adventure starts with a long rest" pseudo house rule, which I like.

[–] LoamImprovement@ttrpg.network 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Agree on the invisibility, and that's a poor running of invisibility by most GMs - it absolutely does not mean automatically hidden in the same way that a creature in total darkness is not automatically hidden, nor should it be construed that way - the Invisible condition clearly states:

An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. For the purpose of hiding, the creature is heavily obscured. The creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves.

It is incredibly frustrating to have inexperienced GMs run invisible creatures as being able to take potshots at the PCs with zero fear of retribution except by wild swings at empty space, hoping to get lucky. Aside from the advantage/disadvantage on attack rolls, all being invisible does is allow a creature to hide without needing any kind of cover because they're already heavily obscured, and prevents creatures from perceiving them with normal vision. A perception check against the hidden creature's stealth roll, truesight, blindsense/sight, tremorsense, and the creature making any sort of noise (such as with an attack) immediately reveals the invisible creature's location.

[–] kilpatds@mastodon.social 1 points 1 year ago

@LoamImprovement I hate it when I'm the invisible one. I'm frequently telling dms "oh, I'm not hidden. He should know where I am/what square I'm in"

[–] Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

RAW players can award inspiration to each other, so sharing it across the table comes down to your group’s opinion of what constitutes “fun and interesting.”

[–] sammytheman666@ttrpg.network 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I am currently trying the xp to level 3 unconscious rules and its going decently. I had to change it a bit, but it allows players to do actions even at 0 hp for a price. Hard to test since they are over level 12 and they are hard to hurt.

If you drink a healing potion outside of combat its full effect.

Bottled inspirations. They get one in their inventory if they still have one.

Present players play abseetees and get xp as a reward, so I dont redo encounters 10 minutes before the start.

[–] LoamImprovement@ttrpg.network 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

One rule I've considered using is, if you fall to 0 HP, you can forgo making death saves and immediately take a full turn, but you die at the end of that turn, no save or healing allowed. It would also allow PCs to get last words where they otherwise wouldn't be able to speak.

[–] sammytheman666@ttrpg.network 2 points 1 year ago

Oh yeah, Last Words are a fucking must. It's the last chapter of your character. It's the last bit of action they might ever take. What curle DM would say : no you are dead now shut up.

Well, I used to read a lot of stories on rpghorrorstories, so yeah it's entirely possible.

[–] kilpatds@mastodon.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@sammytheman666 @LoamImprovement one I've considered is just not resetting the failed death save count until a short/long rest. Wanna wait until save 3 to heal? Sure hope they don't have to roll again any time soon...

But I just want less tubthumping, and rebalancing everything healing related seems too hard.

(Alternately, a level of exhaustion from every time you go unconscious?)

[–] sammytheman666@ttrpg.network 1 points 1 year ago

Here is my complete set of rules, but it's in french sorry. Feel free to translate it using Google The key is that it HAS to be tempting to use. Or the players will just ignore it entirely. Like the Deck of Many Things.

Condition Dying

Pas pour les NPCs, le but est de garder les joueurs en vie.

Quand les points de vie atteignent 0, le personnage tombe Prone et devient Dying

Au début du tour, on commence par les Death saving throws.

Ensuite, le personnage peut soit :

Bouger (prone = moitié de mouvement). Coût : gratuit

Parler en mourrant. Coût = gratuit

Action. Coût = 3 niveaux d'Exhaustion

Bonus Action. Coût = 1 niveau d'Exhaustion

Réaction. Coût = 1 niveau d'Exhaustion

Il n'est pas possible de se relever.

Exhaustion :

Sur les d20

1 = -1

2 = -2

... ...

9 = -9

10 = mort

Récupération

Premier short rest = - 1 Exhaustion

Long rest = - 2 Exhaustion

[–] L0rdMathias@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

1d10 or 1d12 for initiative rolls, decided at start of campaign. If you somehow have a +10 init, you should never be in the 50th percentile. Initiative overall is too volatile and random on the d20 range. Tie breaker is Dex score value, followed by Wis>Int>Cha then if it's still a tie roll for it. Ambushes mechanics exist and modify base initiative also; a situational +/-1 because the sun is in their eyes or whatever becomes important and rewards good planning and execution.

Delayed and prepared actions define a logical trigger instead of requiring a reaction. Anything - movement, bonus action, even reactions - can be delayed. Can spend your reaction to either trigger the action early, or cancel it and prevent it from activating. The logic is strict flowchart logic and you are severely limited in how complex it can be/how many triggers can happen based on the action/situation/etc.

Rolled stats are EITHER 3d6*8 choose 6; OR 4d6 drop lowest rolled in a predefined order. You can already break the game 1000 ways with point buy, get good just let people roll. Random stats tend to breed better player creativity anyways. They're so bad they need to be played creatively; or they're so strong the character build gets to be fancy and unique.

[–] LoamImprovement@ttrpg.network 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Personally, I forgo rolling altogether because the requests to roll stats tend to come from the players who want to minmax, and I allow plenty enough of that with the feat rule I described above.

If you have a table that absolutely insists on rolling, have them roll together and use the same array for every player, then nobody but the DM can complain about someone's character being OP lol.

[–] L0rdMathias@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

True, I strongly agree that most players should avoid rolled stats like the plague. High power level campaigns are not for the feint of heart. They are extremely difficult to play, let alone DM. Designing an encounter to go head to head with the party's builds is not an easy task, despite the DM having virtually unlimited power regarding the game rules. Both the players and the DM must have an extremely high understanding of the rules being abused. But at the end of the day; when everything becomes overpowered, nothing is.

[–] Thyrian@ttrpg.network 2 points 1 year ago

I use the onednd inspiration gained from nat 1 and only lasting a day.

[–] Khrux@ttrpg.network 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I've got a few.

1: Massive damage cannot result in instant death. With the exception of fall damage, I can't see a reason that I'd ever want to do this to the players, and even with fall damage, players become unlikely to die from this as soon as they have an average of 35 hitpoints. If I have traps or monsters dealing enough damage to kill instantly, then I've misbalanced my game.

2: Similarly, monsters can't crit, however some monsters will now have new features that allow them to crit, some of which may have expanded crit ranges or inflict a condition on a crit instead, although you can presume a monster can't crit by default.

3: There is no heroic inspiration at all. PCs are already powerful and features like bardic inspiration or the help action already allow PCs to reward eachother.
However I'm interested in an idea which is players just voluntarily taking "momentum tokens" any time they feel like the flow of the session isn't in their favour, this could be from a bad spat of missing or fromcthe DM disallowing a broken combo or anything really. Players can then communally spend the tokens to increment a d6 in the middle of the table (1 token to put it down on the table on 1, 2 tokens to increment it to 2, etc to a max of 6), whenever any creature makes an attack roll or uncontested ability check, they add the value on the die to their roll, however if they're a PC, they add it to all 20 rolls. This means all creatures become more likely to cause their stuff to happen, basically. The big downside is that players can just award themselves tokens at their own volition, which is easily abusable, plus they may get used to a high momentum in a session where they have a +5 or +6 and then feel that the next session has less momentum (the 6d resets by session), and award themselves more tokens. Also if they use the tokens as frustration tokens, it may hurt my feelings. But I like the idea so I continue to workshop it.

4: I use the 2024 rules for exhaustion, unless via the sickening radiance spell.

5: If you are hit by an attack while in death saving throws, you don't automatically fail any, but instead instantly make another death saving throw, still failing on 1-9 but not gaining a success on 10-20. This actually increases tension because I'm more keen to actually hit PCs when down.


Those are the big changes, I do have a few other though,

I don't allow any of the "conjure x" spells, and generally wanna look over any features that add creatures to combat to save time in combat. The summon spells in Tasha's are good, as are most class feature that add creatures to combat, and find familiar.

I don't allow silvery barbs. Not just do I feel it's too strong, I also feel that it's flavourless and entirely interested in altering mechanics that are an abstraction of the storytelling.

I don't allow the lucky feat, however I have a custom feat called borrowed luck, it works the same but if you are reduced to 0 hitpoints, you instantly fail a number of death saves equal to the number of luck points you've spent that long rest.

I have a few bits of race lore such as much fewer races having darkvision but dwarves having access to the light cantrip (and other minor benefits) and a few minor stuff like that, nothing too exciting there.

[–] LoamImprovement@ttrpg.network 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I actually don't mind killing PCs with some of the above here - not saying that I seek out opportunities, but I've played with squishy casters who are bold and/or dumb enough to wade into the enemy's back line to take advantage of short range AoEs like Burning Hands and Thunderwave, and you better believe their response is to beat the ever-loving shit out of that caster so they don't get up and do it again. And past the opportunities that cocksure players give you, it is 100% okay if a character dies, even one that a player has invested in - adventuring is dangerous and combat is especially brutal; the dragon's not going to reposition themselves to exclude a downed PC from their breath attack, the vampire's not going to pass up an easy meal from an incapacitated caster. If your games are going to be impactful and climactic, the stakes need to be real, and you can't pull any punches.

But there is an important caveat in all this - what's not okay is trivializing PC deaths, whether they died through pure chance, or wildly unbalanced encounters that end in TPKs, because that (especially the latter) ruins games and creates players who invest nothing in their characters, or worse, start to see everything as a numbers game and work to build the murderhoboiest character they possibly can. If a PC dies, it needs to be a scene. After combat's over, make a point of narrating the aftermath. Give the PC last rites, have the surviving members of the party talk about their favorite moments. Some of the best, most heart-wrenching sessions I've run are the ones where a character dies.

[–] Aielman15@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

GENERAL CHANGES

  1. 10 minutes short rest, 24 hours long rest (only two short rests per long rest). I think it's the sweet spot between the normal rules (which often don't allow enough short rests, severely limiting martials and warlocks) and gritty rules (which I think are a bit too prohibitive), and don't force the players to look for "safe heavens" to rest.

  2. Diminutive size for very small creatures. Diminutive creatures, which would include spiders and mosquitoes, only have vision up to 30 feet (they still retain other senses from their stat blocks, if any), and druids gain access to diminutive wildshape at the same level as flying creatures.

  3. Also, colossal size for very big creatures, although that's rarely used. Who knows, maybe today's the day you finally fight Allabar, Opener of the way.

  4. I like playing Counterspell as a contested check (d20 + spellcasting modifier + level of the spell/counterspell). This way, it's actually two casters wrestling for power, instead of one trying to cast a spell and the other telling them "lol nope", which feels cheap for players.

  5. A player can drink a potion with a bonus action. Giving a potion to another player/NPC still requires an action.

  6. Something that can be done with a bonus action can also be done with an action - for example, if a wizard uses their bonus action to drink a potion, they can use their action to Misty Step away. "One levelled spell per turn" rule is still in place.

  7. Playtest's Exhausted rules in place of the PHB's Exhaustion rules, because they are unusable.

  8. No rolled stats. It leads to one party member having all stats above 14 and the other having all stats bar one under 10. With point buy or standard array, everyone begins on equal grounds.

AIMED BUFFS

  1. Monk gets additional ki points equal to its PB. It helps making the lower levels feel less like a slog.

  2. Arcane Archer has a number of arrows equal to its INT modifier. Small (very much needed) improvement.

  3. Berserker doesn't gain exhaustion by using its main subclass feature. Not sure why it was a thing in the first place.

  4. All fighters and barbarians get the Martial Adept feat for free with their subclass. As far as I can see, it doesn't break anything and allows for a bit more strategy and diversity.

  5. Two-Weapon Fighting (fighting style) allows to make the off-hand attack as part of the attack action if both weapons are light.

  6. All sorcerers and warlocks know the spells from their expanded spell list automatically upon reaching the required level (only exception being Wish for Genie warlock). Increases versatility without altering the power level too much.

  7. Probably more, I may be forgetting something.

NERFS

  1. Silvery Barbs, Pass Without Trace, Polymorph and Wish are banned. In survival campaigns, Purify Food and Drink, Create or Destroy Water, Goodberry and Create Food and Water are banned as well. Banned spells may still be available through purchasable scrolls.

  2. Summon/Conjure spells are heavily discouraged, especially those from the PHB that summon a bunch of creatures, as they slow the game down to a crawl and break action economy. I don't ban them because some build are reliant on them (on top of my head, Sheperd Druid and Necromancer Wizard). Find Familiar and familiar-based subclasses such as the Beast Master and the Drakewarden Ranger are allowed, and if players want to summon things, I encourage them to play Tasha's Summon X spells which only summon one big creature in place of eight small ones.

  3. Peace Cleric is banned, Twilight Cleric is either nerfed or banned.

[–] Electric_Druid@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I also like to abide by in-character reasons to multiclass, though I haven't had any particular problem players in this regard.

In a similar spirit to your second rule, I like to start off PCs with a free feat since they can be so flavorful for both mechanics and roleplay. I've also given martials a maneuver of their choosing to give martials more to do in combat. I was gratified when the new UA introduced versions of both of these with their feat revisions and things like weapon mastery and rogue's cunning strike.

[–] LoamImprovement@ttrpg.network 2 points 1 year ago

I tried the free feat at level 1 for a couple campaigns, and while players enjoy it, I find it tends to tip the game balance off a bit, such that lower CR encounters are a little underwhelming. You might not find it a problem in your games though, depending on how munchkin-y your players are.

Definitely agree martials need maneuvers - I highly recommend Laserllama's martial homebrews for experienced players, gives those classes a lot more flavor and flexibility.

[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
  1. I ban the lucky feat

  2. Hexblade is allowed, but only at level 1. And once you have a level in Hexblade, you are forbidden from multiclassing.

  3. Any game content that appeared in the SCAG is banned pending my approval.

[–] LoamImprovement@ttrpg.network 2 points 1 year ago

Yep, lucky is too good and too ubiquitous for every player with access not to pick it up, it's the exact opposite of feats like Weapon Master.

Also banned some of the supplementary stuff at my table. cough strixhaven cough silvery barbs cough