this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2023
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quick reminder (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by hairinmybellybutt@lemmy.world to c/memes@lemmy.ml
 
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[–] PaperTowel@lemmy.world 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This isn't really a meme

[–] Ghyste@sh.itjust.works 20 points 1 year ago (10 children)

And now infographics are memes... Shitposts has more memes than this community.

[–] Furball@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

No, you see, you have to upvote it because communism is great

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[–] hesiomn@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

No cars though. Fuck cars.

[–] Rusky_900@reddthat.com 13 points 1 year ago (10 children)

I'll never understand how owning guns is normalized.

[–] UnverifiedAPK@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Owning a personal weapon has been a thing since humans evolved

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[–] Comment105@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Honest question, at what point does a workshop transition from ownable to not?

A small garage shop with a workbench and a tool wall is obvious enough, but can you own a separate workshop outside your home? Can it be far down the street, or out in a barn somewhere, or in the outskirts of town among large factories? Can you own a lathe? Can you own a CNC machine?

What tools are ownable and what tools are not? What's the scale-cutoff?

Bandsaws, drill presses, welders, large trucks, small trucks, cranes, sheet metal cutters and benders, pipe benders, etc.

Can you buy material? How much? Should it be limited by something else than your funds?

If you take on jobs that are too much for you to handle on your own, do you have to either make your means of small scale production communal, or give up the job?

Please draw some lines for me here.

The line? When you start selling things to people en mass. One or two custom things you sell occasionally? Workshop. Start setting up production lines and hiring people? Now it's for the people

[–] masquenox@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Honest question, at what point does a workshop transition from ownable to not

If you also live in it, it becomes personal property - ie, ownable by you personally.

or in the outdoors of town among large factories?

I mean, that pretty much means it already is factory-like and no, it doesn't become ownable (unless you also live in it). If it involves other people's labor, then all the grey areas vanishes - it becomes communal.

The picture above is not completely accurate - a community might decide, for instance, that all firearms must be communally owned - ie, as in a communal arsenal (essentially a library for guns) - which, let's face it, would probably be necessary anywhere in the US (because it has more guns than people - and far less sense).

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[–] topRamen@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Can you have your own garden for food?

[–] SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Yes. What this is saying is large industries that are meant to feed people or provide commodities cannot belong to just one person. We are seeing the effects of monopolization right now in our time.

[–] JakeHimself@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (14 children)

How do new means of production come to be? Like, if a community really wanted a unicycle repair shop, how would that get started? How would it be decided that we use resources for that shop instead of, say, a pogo stick repair shop? Would that be up to a local government (or some other governing body)? Honest question.

[–] SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

My country used to have communism. Niche shops like this barely ever started as small businesses and instead usually started out as specialized departments of large all-encompassing state corporations. Instead of there being a company that specialized in making furniture, the furniture would be made by the logging company. The company that ran a chemical plant would directly sell shampoos, paints, toothpaste, fertillizer, etc. It cut out middle men but the products were usually crap quality because it couldn't focus on each product individually. This stifled progress. My dad wanted to learn programming (this was the late 80s) but because the government was too oldschool to open a computer science degree programme, the only way to get near a computer was to go to a university that specialized in mining and take a programme in mining machine automation.

[–] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

On the flipside, it's not illegal anywhere in capitalismland™ for the workers to own the means of production. It's called a cooperative. Get a bunch of your comrades together, sign a few legal documents, pool your money for a downpayment, get a loan. Badabing, badaboom, "communist" unicycle repair shop.

(The bank might however disagree with you that a unicycle repair shop is a viable business venture in most cities, but hey in my book that still beats a Central Planning Bureau telling you "Nyet, no-one needs unicycles, however we need you at the mines, glory to Arstotzka!").

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[–] bouh@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Bad management is not the the specialty of communism. In fact, this is a governance problem: is it lead by an idiot and how can people change the lead to solve this problem. Capitalism has this problem currently with governments and companies directions totally unable to do anything about climate change and wealth inequalities.

People always mistaken dictature or oligarchy with communism unfortunately.

[–] BirdyBoogleBop@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Well if the comminity really wanted a unicycle repair shop everyone chips in to build the shop, and gets the equipment or the state directly decides you need a unicycle repair shop.

Although you and a few of your buddies could decide to make a unicycle repair co-operative. You don't have enough money so. You go to the credit union to get extra starting funds, you then use these funds to contract out the building of the shop as you are unicycle repairers by trade. You then get all the equipment and run it as a co-operative.

There are many ways to run a co-operative and in the begining you and your friends are probably going to split the profits directly using your equal shares to recieve divedends. If it takes off and you start needing to hire people, you may start having salary bands instead so everyone will always make X amount of money working with you depending on their position, but will also make a variable amount from dividends depending on the unicycle repair excess profits and might also have a say in how things are run.

This is a more general left-wing idea which can happen in many left-wing, socialist, and communist societies, rather than just communist.

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[–] masquenox@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Like, if a community really wanted a unicycle repair shop, how would that get started?

Pretty much the same way a community would start a co-op right now.

Would that be up to a local government (or some other governing body)?

Public participation, of course. The community would form councils, where people would collectively decide whether this is a good idea or not. That literally what the word soviet means - councils of people making decisions (which is why the Bolsheviks hijacked them and turned the word into a cruel joke).

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[–] Tedesche@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (29 children)

How's about a website that generates money, like Facebook or YouTube? Can you own that?

What about products that designed to create ongoing streams of revenue, like a patent on an invention or a piece of art you can collect royalties from every time it is displayed? The USSR famously took ownership of Tetris away from its creator.

Under communism, how does the stock market work? I'm not a big fan of it, but it's pretty hard to imagine getting rid of it now that the global economy is pretty much dependent on it.

Today, five countries exist that can be said to be communist: China, Russia, Vietnam, Laos, and Cuba. Of those five, none have achieved actual communism, and several have inarguably embraced capitalism to a great extent. All of them have essentially authoritarian governments. Which is unsurprising, since a dictatorship of the proletariat is central to the Marxist vision of how to create a communist society, and involves the creation of a single-party transitional government that forcibly suppresses all its critics and rivals.

I'm not big into capitalism and I think we should implement plenty of socialist reforms, but I will never understand why some people on the Left—or anyone for that matter—think communism is what we should be striving for.

[–] trot@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (7 children)

"Today, five countries exist that can be said to be communist: China, Russia"

Tell me you have no idea what you are talking about without directly telling me you have no idea what you are talking about. In what way can today's Russia "be said to be communist", and how does its current, very explicitly anti-communist government, contribute to the point you are making?

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[–] voidMainVoid@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (6 children)

The USSR famously took ownership of Tetris away from its creator.

He developed the game on company time. If he'd lived in a capitalist country, the government wouldn't have taken control of Tetris, but the company would have. Every software company contract I've ever heard of has a clause that says the company owns any code you produce while working there.

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[–] deathbird@mander.xyz 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Stock market? The thing where you buy tiny fractional ownership of of a company, too small to influence it, then try to sell that legal construct for a little more to someone else later? Why would you need that at all?

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[–] hairinmybellybutt@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Those websites are highly capitalistic and never brought any innovation, all technologies related to the internet were researched by public money.

Look into patent trolls. Patents are bad, publicly funded research is always better, but it doesn't prevent people from spending money to do research, but it doesn't entitle them for the profits.

I'm not advocating FOR communism, I'm just trying to dispel myths.

Socialism is soluble with capitalism.

[–] jmshrv@feddit.uk 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Never brought any innovation? VP9, AV1, zstd, GraphQL, React, and many more were made/contributed to by Google/Facebook specifically to improve those services. We benefit from this as they release these programs/formats.

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[–] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch 6 points 1 year ago

quick reminder

Russians got drunk in communism.

[–] tracyspcy@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So basically nothing will change in it for you! Don't worry, you lose nothing.

[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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