Expect even more when they no longer update Windows 10. I have 3 computers that are still good but can't be updated to 11. I'm installing Linux because I'm not buying new computers when these work great.
this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2025
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All the FOSS and Linux advocates here going "good". Meanwhile the monkey's paw...
Instead, people are slowly ditching their computers for smartphones and tablets, especially as they’ve become more powerful than ever. The only remaining major consumer markets for Windows PCs are gamers and specialized professionals who rely on software that only runs on Windows, ZDNET observed back in 2019. While the pandemic caused a three-year blip in PC sales, it seems that this trend has continued.
I was just thinking along these lines. My parents have pretty much switched to using iPads for everything. They treat them like laptops, and it’s honestly not like they aren’t as functional for what my parents need.
And, Microsoft aside, there is a big corporate interest in encouraging that. Buy a disposable, planned obsolescence-driven single device, stay within the ecosystem.
People have been mad at Windows for so long they forget the reason we're supposed to be mad is it drifting closer to that in the first place.
There is corporate interest to that, but I don't understand how it isn't profitable to make a device killing it.
An ARM PC in tablet form with Linux and Gnome, with open everything, receiving updates.
BTW, ecosystem is an interesting word. It means a stable system with a hierarchical food chain. Specifically designed to extract value again and again for the same service which isn't even unique, in a controllable and predictable way. Maybe the Matrix with human farms was more of a prophecy than people tend to think.
For one thing, nobody cares about it and they will never care about it.
Usability and convenience trump those concerns 100% of the time.
The point of a device killing it is you have to compete on usability and convenience as a trojan horse for your political stance on those issues.
The problem is how you get there given the extreme costs of hardware development (let alone of matching the Google components of Android) and the massive incentive to... you know, make money. The few things that meet that description are hard to use, clunky, underpowered and unappealing.
That's the problem someone needs to fix. I just don't see anybody even seriously trying, beyond niche products for techheads.
I'd lower the bar TBH.
No need to have something powerful. No need to have three cameras almost good enough for professional purposes.
Hardware development is not that extremely expensive in this case, it's not an iPad, we need to fit something like RPi with Linux and Gnome into a box with a battery, a few antennae and peripheral devices. Make microphone and camera with a hardware switch. Maybe even a GPS antenna with that.
It has to be marketed accordingly, as something less. The box shouldn't be thinner than an iPad or cooler than an iPad, just convenient enough to hold. Ergonomic tests are not that hard. I mean, hiring people to do them costs something, yes.
What matters in marketing when you're the underdog - is being precise. When you're the overlord, you are teaching the consumers what to expect, so you can misposition a product. Here, I think, you can't.
So if you can't compete in the same niche, make a slightly (but clearly) different niche and make it clear that you are aiming for that, and make a device for that.
And make (like Apple does) a few scripted ways of using the device. Thoroughly checked to be workable.
I guess this adds up to some expense, but not nearly what those companies spend trying to make their things thin, sleek and hard to repair, and appealing to blonde girls.
Ah, like a chromebook!
Didn't go super well though
No, the opposite. To have a normal Linux and an open hardware system. And no Broadcom.
Actually a reimagining of olden ThinkPads with proper screen ratios and keyboards and everything would be nice too.
Refurbished ones have a few downsides.
An iPad is already not convenient enough to hold.
This just doesn't work. There is no "smaller niche" for mobile phones and tablets. They are already commodity products. Commercial phones start at 100-200 bucks and are very competent these days. 300-400 are insanely good for the price. And current FOSS-focused options are more expensive and have worse usability.
Giving the FOSS space an out on competing on features because it's a different proposition is not going to work. People are fine with the current proposition, which is why they all already own a phone and probably have access to a tablet. They don't need what you're offering. They need something that does the same thing as their current device AND has an extra advantage on top of that. Ideally a sexy advantage that looks good in a keynote and gets a ton of tech influencer hype and looks good in ads.
It's not about less expensive, it's about not too expensive to try. Say, most Linux phones I can think of start a bit higher than I'd wish.
I think we'll see a time the general public becomes more conscious of the risks. The world is changing, and has already changed enough.
I don't see an indication of that anywhere.
I think there's an awareness of being screwed over on a societal level, but it's on a climate change-like "I know it'd bad but don't see intuitive links to my actions" way.
People will enjoy the "FOSS" label on something the way they enjoy a "Vegan" or "Organic" label in their food. It's nice if it's there, but it won't trump any other considerations for convenience or taste.
So in that sense, people will try a phone if it costs the same, looks the same and has all the same features, but won't take any inconvenience for the sake of privacy or control. So what you end up with is stuff like Nothing phones, Fairphones or Framework laptops that are still fundamentally Android or Windows commercial devices with some concessions to leftie techhead posturing. And even then those are niche options.
No, I don't mean anything like "climate change", I mean the looming promise of full-blown Orwellian world, that is most beneficial for people in power when it's not visible or felt, but they can't prevent it. So over time more and more people will realize that we are already there.
It's the same. World on fire, surveillance economy... both are real world problems that are already noticeable and people generally will admit are bad, but are too detached from individual action to trigger spontaneous mass choices.
The difference is for climate action you probably need regulation, but while regulation will limit what corporations can't do, it won't (arguably shouldn't) enforce a FOSS-driven ecosystem.
Android is still better than Windows.
Maybe, but only if everything you do is in a web browser. Google is much worse than Microsoft when it comes to privacy though.
At what?
Being FOSS, and being usable and stable.
At fucking everything. I don't find my WiFi suddenly not working until I reboot it, reset all settings, dig out the password and connect anew again
It's so weird that you chose that example because, weird OS pissing contests aside, my Android phone has started doing that and it's driving me crazy.
Granted, I'm making it do things it's not supposed to, but still.
Damn, I really hoped nothing else does this. Sorry, it really makes one angry
Having a touch interface.
No. Windows 8 had a great touch interface and morons freaked out. Windows 10 had ability to switch between touch and standard desktop, morons freaked out, Windows 11 dumbed down the menus for touch, and you guessed it, "Where are all of my menu options I rarely use?" The problem is that most people are morons.
LOL. Thanks for the laugh.
Seems likely to just be 499 million less computer users. I know my father in law is only using a phone and iPad at this point. But I haven’t been a windows user since Windows NT/2000
This is what I think the bulk of their lost userbase has gone, in addition to Gen Z not being terribly interested in PCs the way those in Gen X and Millenials are.
Yeah. Outside of work most people aren't using proper PCs as much. They have their phone or tablet, which serves for most of what the average person does. (Watch videos and do things on browsers)
It's increasingly just business users and a small number of gaming enthusiasts.
If you wanted to drive me insane, make me browse the internet using one stupid little screen. Sounds like hell on earth.
Ever since switching to a foldable and buying a smart TV, I feel this. Things I used to rely on a computer for I can now easily do using my pocket tablet or TV instead.
Back in 2022 I spent $4K building my dream machine, yet I hardly use it. As someone who used to be glued to a PC all day, every day, I thought I'd never see the day where I can go several days in a row without my computer and not even miss it. But the only time I fire up my PC now is to spin some tunes on the turntables, play a game, edit a video, or work on my website. For everything else, the phone or the smart TV will suffice.
Microsoft and most other tech giants have long since stopped feeding their cash cows in favor of squeezing them until they're dead.
400 million, that's quite substantial! And I image that number is far from done growing...
Plus how many people have multiple computers in the house?
I sure as fuck do.
I generally run a phone (just because it was mentioned), a desktop, and a laptop.
Plus, my wife technically has three jobs (1 full time, 2 PRN) and hardware (laptop) from each of them, plus she not only has a windows laptop, but a macbook, plus her phone, plus her tablet.... it goes on, lol.
My desktop is currently on windows as I'm relying on some third party tools for a game, and I just haven't had the energy to look into it and get it running on Linux. (EQ private server, well within their rules, though their rules don't match the live environment - just wanted to clarify I wasn't cheating anyone, if they include install instructions on the home page, I assume its allowable, plus the GMs give advice in chat for configuration for newbies)
The laptop, is almost, without fail, some flavor of Linux. Its a personal machine, but I've mostly worked night shift help desk... sometimes there is time to kill. So I keep it in my backpack of tools and other shit, boot it up and continue whatever I was looking into previously to entertain myself.
Technically, I'm studying for an advanced role at on the security team, for the most part, lol.
Just because I cracked the coffee shop next doors wifi to borrow their internet (So I can view things that are NOT on my employer's network on my personal phone) doesn't mean I'm doing anything nefarious to my employers, and the coffee shop had the wifi password written on a board at their stations, but they were closed because while people may NEED coffee at 2AM (especially to keep fucking children's hospitals running), they don't seem to care.
aw…