this post was submitted on 12 Apr 2025
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[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 4 points 2 hours ago

George fucking Bush got on stage and told you idiots not to put Trump in office. The fucking Cheneys got up and said "hey maybe this is a bad idea this time."

There is no complicity, there is just assholes not listening when it actually mattered.

[–] Gates9@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 5 minutes ago)

The reason they are silent is because they have been actively, not passively, complicit. Take Obama, for example. The man kept the patriot act in place, expanded it, killed more people with Drones than Bush, including a U.S. citizen, prosecuted journalists and whistleblowers, etc. Bill Clinton repealed Glass Steagal which created the conditions for the 2007-2008 financial crisis, implemented “triangulation” as a political strategy….

If I were any of these people I would shut the fuck up too.

[–] Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 35 points 9 hours ago (6 children)

I can't believe the top comment on this post.

The assholeness of blame and what-if-ism is the death knell for any hopes that this generation has what it takes to combat this fascism.

I hope you can stop sniping at people helping you, and act. This tail biting has got to stop. Forget the failures of the past. How much guilt do you want to squeeze from people who may or may not have contributed to its cause?

Succeed today, or it's over. Get your shit together.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago

And to add to this, emphasis on Together. We need to be a United Left. We need to participate in local and primary elections across the board, starting yesterday. We need to vote for Bernie and people he supports, and in a great many cases that includes voting for the DNC.

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[–] Hikuro93@lemmy.world 3 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

I mean... Regardless of them being biased or not, or how good a President they were during their terms, didn't every single one of them warn the people this was to be expected when you put a clown on the White House? That it'd turn into a circus?

Even Kamala warned about it, and I don't even like her and don't see her as POTUS material. But even if she didn't do much as a leader, even if her term was mostly unremarkable, it still wouldn't be as implosive as Trump 2.0.

Words, at the end of the day, are just words. They're pretty worthless if there's no action behind them. And Trump calls that bluff daily. He fully knows people will complain and badmouth him, but won't go further than that. If you wanna call the bluffer's bluff, act, don't just threaten. And even if the worst the people can do to him is remove him from office (aka, no lenghty prison time, or remove all his assets and his friend's, or worse) then he's already won and paved the way for the next one in line to try his shot.

And to be clear - I did not vote for this. Like, at all, because I'm not even american. And yet billions of people are still being affected by this debacle of misplaced trust by our collective predecessors.

As far as a spec of dust such as myself can do, I won't contribute to this dependency ever.

[–] reddig33@lemmy.world 62 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (7 children)

If it wasn’t for you, Nader, Al Gore would’ve been our president. So you can fuck all the way off.

[–] N0body@lemmy.dbzer0.com 114 points 16 hours ago (6 children)

Blaming Nader for the Supreme Court handing the election to the Bush Dynasty is the kind of thinking that paralyzed American politics on the “left.” Nader spent his career working to help the people.

Bush having the governor of the deciding state be his brother and having the Supreme Court in his pocket sealed that election.

Democrats should win every election by massive landslides. Instead, they spent the last several decades bowing to billionaires and providing controlled opposition that suppressed any actual reform.

The illusion of choice between neoliberals morphed into fascism, and it’s now difficult to discern neoliberals from fascists. They have the same interests: Big number goes up for billionaires; nothing else matters.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 0 points 2 hours ago

You talk about the splintered left and GOP corruption and then you unashamedly defame Democrats in a single breath, wow.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 76 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

As a reminder, Chief Justice John Roberts as well as Justice Brett Kavanaugh and Justice Amy Coney Barrett all worked the hanging chads case on the side of Bush.

The fact that people still blame Nader instead of the fucks who literally owe their positions to being on the case is such a joke. Like, why does anyone think these pricks ended up Justices? Because they helped steal an election in 2000.

[–] danc4498@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago

Multiple people can be to blame. And 3rd party candidates whose only purpose is to split the vote are always to blame. Corrupt courts and politicians are also always to blame.

[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 10 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

Democrats should win every election by massive landslides. Instead, they spent the last several decades bowing to billionaires and providing controlled opposition that suppressed any actual reform.

And now I no longer hear "vote blue, no matter who" slogan since Chuck Schumer helped the Republicans pass on the budget bill.

[–] MagicShel@programming.dev 5 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I mean, vote blue, but primary the fuck out of people like that.

[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 0 points 7 hours ago

The neoliberals use the slogan to condition people to accept the false dichotomy of having to always choose the "lesser evil", and make voters complacent from pressuring their representatives.

[–] billiam0202@lemmy.world 29 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

I looked at the totals for the 2000 election and found that, had every Nader voter instead voted for Gore, there would have been only two states that would have flipped:

  • Florida, by a tally of 2,912,790 Bush to 3,009,741.
  • New Hampshire, which would have been 273,559 Bush to 288,546 Gore.

Now, it's entirely possible we still get the ratfucking from SCOTUS and they still throw the state to Bush. But New Hampshire had 4 electoral votes, and had they gone for Gore then it would have been 267 Bush - 270 President Gore.

Bush won because 22,198 people in NH didn't understand that voting for a third-party only hurts the major party that most closely aligns with your ideals.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 8 hours ago

only two states

lol yeah, only Florida.

[–] Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.org 22 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

Having only two major parties and "winner takes it all" elections is a shit system and it was doomed to fail. You can't force people to vote for "the lesser of two evils" forever. That's not how a democracy is supposed to work. Especially if neither of the major parties allign with your ideals. Of course the consequences of this non-compliance are dire but it was inevitable.

[–] UsernameHere@lemy.lol 7 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

You have to vote for the lesser of two evils in order to get a chance at changing the election system.

The GOP are trying to take away voting rights. Not the Dems.

I realize this sounds like false equivalence, but at this point, I do think it needs to be said:

When the lesser of two evils sleepwalks us into the greater of two evils, there’s no material difference between the lesser and greater of two evils.

[–] billiam0202@lemmy.world 4 points 13 hours ago

Having only two major parties and “winner takes it all” elections is a shit system and it was doomed to fail (...) That’s not how a democracy is supposed to work.

I agree. And yet, it's what we have (well...)

Especially if neither of the major parties allign with your ideals. Of course the consequences of this non-compliance are dire but it was inevitable.

That right there is the crux of the issue. It is mathematically certain that the US electoral system, as it is now, will result in two parties. And it is equally certain because of that fact that voting for anyone other than one of those two party candidates will result in helping the other candidate. Knowing this, a responsible voter should decide to support whichever party most closely aligns with their values, because otherwise they're helping the major party they lease align with win instead.

If you agree with the Dems on one issue, and agree with the GOP on zero issues, you should still vote for the Dems in the general election.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (5 children)

The fact that you're more angry at those 22.198 people than the fact that our election system has been a broken joke since long before the year 2000 and continues to be a broken joke because of the undemocratic Electoral College is kind of pathetic.

Why aren't you mad about that? Instead you're mad at a group of citizens whose only power is their vote, while Senators and House Representatives who could have done something to change us to a better system have done fuck-all in decades.

Further, why aren't you mad that the Supreme Court stole the election? And then rewarded the people who worked the case with their own Supreme Court seats? Or are you just fine with open corruption and prefer to blame people with no power?

EDIT: Oh, also a reminder, Gore won the popular vote by over 500,000 votes. But keep sucking up to this broken dead worthless system that ignores the popular will of the people. Stay mad at hose 22,000 people I guess, because that totally makes fucking sense.

EDIT II: Damn I really triggered a bunch of bitches who don't want to wish for a better world but want to instead make excuses for why this one should keep sucking.

[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 10 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

The fact that you're more angry at those 22.198 people than the fact that our election system has been a broken joke since long before the year 2000 and continues to be a broken joke because of the undemocratic Electoral College is kind of pathetic.

It's possible to be mad at both of those things... over and over... every fucking election cycle.

Source: me.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 7 hours ago

Seriously, I fucking hate arguments like this. "Why are you mad about x and not y?" Bitch, I'm angry about both!

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[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 8 hours ago

Truly nothing has changed in 20 years, huh? Still have morons who don't understand first past the post and why we only have two parties.

[–] CitizenBane@lemmy.world -5 points 7 hours ago

🎭 Original Claim:

"If it wasn’t for Nader, Al Gore would’ve been our president. So he can fuck all the way off."

🔍 Step 1: Emotional Noise Filter

This claim is loaded with emotional intensity:

It uses blame-framing (“because of Nader”) and moral outrage (“he can fuck all the way off”).

This is outrage induction, not just opinion — it presents Nader’s candidacy as not only consequential, but morally unforgivable.

🛑 Distortion Detected → Emotional Persuasion: The tone demands rejection of a person based on an emotionally charged version of a historical what-if. 📌 Let’s neutralize the distortion using the [[Framing Neutralizer (FN)]]​:

Framed as: “Nader’s candidacy ruined everything, therefore he deserves total dismissal.”

Reframed neutrally: “Some analysts believe Ralph Nader’s third-party run in 2000 may have affected the outcome of the election. The debate remains contentious.”

Notice how that removes emotional judgment and loaded blame, but preserves the subject. 🔎 Step 2: Relevance Check

Is this still a meaningful claim today?

In political history discussions: yes — it’s a key moment often cited when discussing third-party impact.

In personal outrage: less so, unless the speaker is still emotionally processing the 2000 election.

So we ask: is this a political analysis or a grudge statement? 🧩 Step 3: Clarity & Precision Test

Let’s try a mini Precision Breakdown (PB)​:

Core Assertion: Nader’s candidacy caused Al Gore to lose.

Supporting Evidence?: This is debated. Nader got 97,000 votes in Florida; Bush won by ~500. But...

Missing Context?: Gore lost his home state (Tennessee). The Supreme Court intervened. Ballot design confusion (butterfly ballot) also played a role.

Perception Impact: Frames one person as solely responsible — simplifies a complex, multi-factor event.

🧭 Bottom Line via Clarity Compass (CC)​: Direction Assessment Truth Check Partially grounded in historical fact Evidence Check Lacks full context or causal certainty Context Check Oversimplifies election outcome factors Impact Check High emotional impact, blame-focused framing 🪞 Reframed for Clarity:

“There’s debate over whether Nader’s 2000 campaign affected Gore’s loss — but blaming him alone ignores other pivotal factors, like the Supreme Court decision, ballot issues in Florida, and Gore’s loss of key states.”
[–] stabby_cicada@slrpnk.net 29 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (4 children)

You're not wrong. But at this point I'll take all the allies I can get. Anybody who's willing to stand the fuck up (looking at you, Nader, Bernie, AoC, Walz, Booker) earns a ton of forgiveness for past misdeeds.

And honestly, when I think of about just how badly Harris shit the bed, and how much she and Biden failed the American people, I can bring myself to forgive Nader.

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[–] thegr8goldfish@startrek.website 11 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

This kind of circular firing squad bull shit is exactly why American liberals get their ass kicked in almost every election. So busy blaming each other instead of the people that actually elected the moron in charge. What happened to big tent?

[–] Auntievenim@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

We can't possibly blame Republicans for ratfucking our country 50 years straight

[–] kescusay@lemmy.world 11 points 16 hours ago

Yep. Nader contributed directly to all this shit.

[–] thedruid@lemmy.world 3 points 12 hours ago

That wasn't the reason. Nader was a voice, not a driver

[–] kreskin@lemmy.world 5 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

If Al Gore had gotten out of the way, Nader could have been our president. And where exactly has Al Gore been lately? Did you read Naders post? He makes a lot of good points. Where the eff are the respected leaders on the dem side. They are all doing nothing.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 7 hours ago

If Al Gore had gotten out of the way, Nader could have been our president. And where exactly has Al Gore been lately? Did you read Naders post? He makes a lot of good points. Where the eff are the respected leaders on the dem side. They are all doing nothing.

I'm sorry, this has to be satire right? Or are you just 12 years old or something?

[–] sndmn@lemmy.ca 25 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

It's scary watching an empire collapse in real time.

[–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 9 points 14 hours ago

It's not so scary when life was already eroding away from under you, and you'd already given up on many of your dreams.

This is America. Most of the inhabitants at this point were sold a pipe dream by the generations before us that had far, far more opportunities and stability.

Now, these same assholes are strip mining what remains, all while lecturing us on how we're demanding too much when we seek financial stability and complaining/panicking when we try to point out what's happening is ruining our futures.

I'm not scared at this point, I'm angry and disappointed.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 15 points 16 hours ago

Especially when we live there.

[–] jrs100000@lemmy.world 12 points 16 hours ago (3 children)

Who exactly does he think the former presidents are going to convince? They hate Bush, and the rest are all Democrats.

[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 1 points 7 hours ago

Democrats can tap Dick Cheney. He was from their party right? Great guy I heard.

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 8 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

I think it's more about galvanizing and focusing some actual opposition to Trump, and making it more difficult for him to do what he wants to do.

[–] jrs100000@lemmy.world 8 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

You know who should be doing that? The Democrats in the House and Senate. If they cant even do that a bunch of geriatric retired politicians writing a letter to the editor its going to galvanize anything.

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[–] frustrated_phagocytosis@fedia.io 7 points 16 hours ago (3 children)

Trump's willingness to allow them secret service protection is all that's keeping his unhinged followers from going after them. He could cancel that and announce open season on them if he feels like it. Their families and anyone who works with them would be endangered too.

[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 4 points 8 hours ago

They're all fantastically rich and frankly most don't have many years left to spend it. They can fucking pay for security rather than disappear during the greatest political crisis in 50 years.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 7 hours ago

They will just hire private security.

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