Ask Lemmy

Refuse. I've done so multiple times. They were very small things, not job-ending / company-boycotting things. Like setting someone's auto-reply when they took time off. I asked their supervisor to write it for me and pasted it in.

Them him/her I have to think about it for a bit, and then take a recorder in my pocket when "revisiting" the conversation.

I have never worked in IT and not had at least one project I worked on which I didn't think was immoral. Even at a small web dev agency I was working on an app for keeping track of zero hours contract workers during their shifts in a major UK supermarket. I got invited into a meeting 2 weeks before it got released and told not to buy any tescos stock.

2 weeks later on release they fired several thousand of their full time employees and referred them on to this 3rd party to get their old jobs back with new - worse - contracts like zero guaranteed working hours.

Then there was the startup that was in adtech and spied on people online. We were on the adblock easylist of trackers to block.

After that there was the gambling company... idk it just seems like every job has a morally grey component to it.

Edit: had an episode of John Oliver Last Week Tonight about my current company on air last week.

Edit 2: One of my friends was working for VW in Berlin when the emissions test scandal came out. Ultimately she quit being a SWE and became a nurse. I guess everyone has their own tolerance levels for the shady shit they are comfortable doing at work.

Another friend used to work for a porn site but wouldn't ever touch gambling. He's still a SWE though.

Keep the receipts. Get written proof that your boss wanted you to push forward. If they lose the client you can use those to prove you tried to warn them.

Cover your own ass first.

I always am of the belief that every employee of a company is complicit in its wrongdoings if they continue to work there knowingly. Companies can't opperate without employees so the best way to make changes in them is for the workers to quit. Thats why i hate it when people defend customer service employees when their job is litterally to be the front face of the company towards its consumers.

No. Sorry. Next time you ask, can you put it on an email please?

If going to push back don't make it personal, that you are uncomfortable doing this. Change the focus to concern it would be putting the organization at risk of liability if we can't provide the good or service. Potential to damage the relationship with an important customer and reduce revenue. CYA with documentation and good luck on the job search.

One of our former bosses asked me to sign something clearly illegal. I told him NO. I am still here, the boss is a former boss.

It happened to me and I refused in an internal email with a lot of people in CC (the CEO was included). I politely explained why it was very illegal and why I wouldn't do it. They stopped asking me because "they knew that I knew that they knew."

If it's the same kind of company, you would say yes, the client would discover the lie, and your company would fire you in less than a few minutes. You usually don't last long in that kind of environment.

I’ve quit jobs for ethical reasons. But I’m a carpenter, it’s easy to find a job in my field.

I think your best bet is to find a new employer. Definitely keep CYA documents as needed in the meantime, though.

If I'm understanding correctly, you've not been selling the customer the additional feature but they think you have been and now your boss wants you to actually start billing them for the feature that they mistakenly think they are getting already but without actually providing the feature to them? Assuming that is correct it really does sound like fraud. Generally you can't knowingly sell something you aren't capable of selling but still collect the money. Even if the victim mistakenly thinks they got what they paid for you are still defrauding them of the money. I'm not a lawyer but I think if you do this you may end up needing a lawyer. Is there anyone else in the company besides your boss that you could talk to about this? The more people know about what is going on the harder it will be for your boss to pull of whatever he is trying to pull off. If something like this was going on where I work I would be documenting everything and sharing it with whoever would look at it, starting with my bosses boss. I wouldn't make any accusations though, just present the facts and express your concerns.

Isn't charging for something you don't provide while saying you do fraud?

Time to update the resume.

If you're already on shaky terms, this mess could be pinned on you and you'll be out the door before you get a chance to pull up the paper trail leading to your boss.

In a less drop everything and run scenario, Is this feature a physical add-on or something done via software. Could always dig the hole deeper to stall for time and say parts are on backorder or someone key to implementing the feature is on sudden bereavement leave.

Tell them to fuck off, like I did a couple months ago.

Or tell them, you can go tell the customer they have a credit, because they made a mistake on the PO, or I will. Like I said a while ago.

Same job been there 6 years.

Ask your customer when they need it implemented by, because you don't have a timeline for it. Is this a software feature that can be added to the existing devices? Send the quote, set realistic expectations.

If you fall on a sword for your customer, they might have a place for you while you look for something permanent. Or a reference for something good.

If the pricing is itemised, you could price the impossible feature at an exorbitant rate.

Either way, has your company previously sold this feature or is this just a mistaken belief about the existence of the feature that the customer has somehow invented themselves?

If the feature isn't on any of the customer's previous itemisations and they're the ones who made it up accidentally, suddenly seeing it on a new itemisation with a sky-high price tag might make them realise without explicitly telling them, which may or may not be what you (as the individual) want. I assume your boss will get wind of this one way or the other, so you could get them on-side by suggesting this idea.

Is this feature something one of your company's rivals might be able to implement or is this one of those situations where the feature would literally break the laws of physics? (Or mathematics, etc.) If the latter, it might be easier to come clean to the customer with a full explanation. If the former, your company needs to get on R&D immediately. Consult experts in the field. And that's where the exorbitant rate comes in.

How much of this your company shares with the customer is down to your chain of command. How much you share with the customer is down to how much it will affect you personally one way or the other.

Lots of ifs, buts and maybes here. Good luck. I think you need it.

How are you supposed to quote a service or project that you don't have any experience or pricing information for? I would suggest it's on your boss to deliver what he told you to include and not on you unless you know he has no intention to provide what is offered. Also, including something that doesn't get delivered might allow the customer to withdraw or renegotiate the contract.

Obviously you don't want to do something unethical, but I guess I'd just say to think carefully about what is really your responsibility and what isn't.

Do whta you can with the quote and ask the boss to finalize the parts where you are unsure and make sure you paper trailer the whole lot and make it explicitly clear why you are handing it over.

Tell the truth, and quote the customer without that feature. Make it clear that that feature doesn't exist, and your company can't make it, and your supplier isn't interested in working on it.

Your boss had time to sort this out, and failed. He asked you to move forward as if it was solved, which means lying. Instead, tell the truth.

You could run it by your boss before sending it to the customer, but don't let him insert any bad-faith statements if you're the one signing the quote.

I already quit one job for that reason and refused to take a drug test for another job for the same reason (lol they decided they needed me enough to waive the drug test).

Can this additional part be obtained from a third party?