this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2025
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What is your line in the sand?

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[–] JacksonLamb@lemmy.world 10 points 43 minutes ago* (last edited 43 minutes ago)

still consider

It has only two political parties, and a weird system where all votes are not equal and the actual vote majority doesn't always win.

It has frequently had multiple people from the same families running for office, and only wealthy people have a shot. Corporations get to lobby for laws in their favour.

It also spies on its own citizens, holds people indefinitely without trial, has a huge prison population, a militarized police with a high homicide rate, and is the only western nation with the death penalty.

Trump and Musk are laying bare how fragile the veneer of "democracy" really is in that country.

[–] TeaWalker@lemm.ee 4 points 30 minutes ago (1 children)

Am Dutch. I have considered the US an incomplete democracy since I learned about voting in school. It’s not one person one vote, which to me is crucial for a democracy. The US right now is still a nation of laws, but democracy is sharply in decline. The voter-roll issues and Gerrymandering come to mind immediately. Not to mention the fact that guaranteed access to polls has been pulled by the courts. Which is insane to me.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 1 points 18 minutes ago

Also president having so much power was clearly never democratic to begin with as we can see it all play out now.

[–] tortina_original@lemmy.world 2 points 33 minutes ago

It was never a democracy.

[–] uhmbah@lemmy.ca 1 points 9 minutes ago
[–] Intergalactic@lemmy.world 8 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Absolutely not. A country where two parties are the only two viable electoral options, is absolutely not a democracy. Doesn’t mean I’ll stop my membership for the PSL.

[–] Kissaki@feddit.org 1 points 1 hour ago (2 children)
[–] Uli@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 hour ago

Plus Sized Lobsters

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 1 points 17 minutes ago

Pink Sexy Lizards

[–] Zoldyck@lemmy.world 3 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

No. I also don't consider the United States to be a democracy.

[–] rickdg@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago

Is demos how you say money in Greek?

[–] sinnsykfinbart@lemmy.world 4 points 1 hour ago

I really never did, not a well functioning at least. They've practiced voter repression for decades, and then they had fun testing how low they could go after 9/11, doing a lot of unlawful shit, going after citizens who spoke out against their policies and wars.

[–] SereneSadie@lemmy.myserv.one 2 points 47 minutes ago

I don't recognise the current American regime as a valid government. Just like I don't recognise the Israeli occupation force as a valid state.

It's not remotely binding or even meaningful to anyone but myself of course. But hey, nothing matters these days.

[–] DasFaultier@sh.itjust.works 61 points 3 hours ago

See, as a German, when I see a country go down the same route as the Weimar Republic after handing over the power to the Nazi party, I think it's just very obvious. Hitler took some two months to completely destroy democracy, and the US are juuust in the middle of that. History doesn't repeat, but sometimes it rhymes, and the similarities are just remarkable.

So yeah, I guess that would be a big fat trench in the sand.

[–] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 21 points 3 hours ago

Line in the sand? Going after political opponents. Censoring information. Dismantling media. Abandoning rule of law. Business and government mixing too much.

USA is speed running these.

[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 86 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

No. And I haven't for a while now. Looking at your electoral system (electoral college, gerrymandering etc.), it probably never was but it was never as obvious as it is now.

[–] tiredofsametab@fedia.io 27 points 4 hours ago

I grew up in the US and have lived outside it for 10 years now. I would agree with this. Voting and representation have never been total and is definitely less available for many groups. Further things are being stripped away.

[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 10 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Yeah. My wake-up call was quite early in life, when SCOTUS handed the election to GWB. If I was born a generation earlier I'd have called it with Watergate. If I was an ancestor currently dead, I would have called it around the time an assassin put the presidency in the hands of the opposite party, and a drunk asshole subsequently decided reconstruction efforts should fail. Or possibly just prior, when we somehow decided not to hang every man Jack of the confederacy for treason.

Edit: an earlier still version of me would have overseen the death of a culture brought on by poxy mad white religious extremists, and laughed ruefully to hear that centuries later the utter bastardy continues unchanged.

[–] Mvlad88@lemmy.world 9 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

How can you be a democracy if you have only two political parties?

[–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

With one not giving a fuck, and the other severely fractured due to conflicting ideals none the less

[–] Brownandoffended@lemm.ee 26 points 3 hours ago

A struggling democracy, in the beginning of an Orban/Hungary-like overtake of the country.

Its possible to revert, but you seem to have atleast a 1/3 of the country that would walk down a straight up facist line willingly and happily do so.

You need to fix your shit america.

[–] sirico@feddit.uk 6 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

The next election will tell, my tin hat is on Puting the US into a situation where an election can't be held so they can have a third term.

[–] Kissaki@feddit.org 2 points 1 hour ago

I'm not sure even with a successful election and it going to the democrats we'll be able to tell. At least from today's view. It will largely depend on how institutions and the justice/court system can hold out against the current administration right now and during this phase.

I feel like they may have already created damage that won't be cleared just from one election or one election period's fixups.

At the same time, hopefully, this is the wake-up call for opposition and a transformation one way or another. It's plainly obvious what is happening now, and I am hoping opposition will become more apparent and prevalent because of it. Not just in citizens, but institutions too.

[–] zonnewin@feddit.nl 29 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

I consider it an autocratic regime with strong fascist characteristics.

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 2 points 26 minutes ago

I consider America to be a plutocracy, which successfully propagandized the majority with the illusion of democracy, now transitioning into a Christian fascist kleptocracy... Basically a mafia state / corporate dictatorship using religion to control the masses (as is tradition).

If you think it's not very Christian, that's because most Christians consider Jesus's teachings to be evil communism.

[–] sasquash@sopuli.xyz 9 points 3 hours ago

Maybe a flawed democracy at best and it's getting worse every day. At least on federal level, I don't much about states politics. Not really an expert but democracy can't really work that well if you are stuck in a two party system. Having more choice would sure help against populists and autocrats.

[–] char_stats@lemm.ee 17 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

I consider it a faux democracy. It still has the semblance of one, with people voting, believing they matter and that they have actual free speech, but the masses are being, increasingly less subtly, controlled by media corporations and rendered incapable of critical, independent thinking by an ever decreasing quality of education.

Don't be fooled though! This isn't happening in the US alone. It is widespread all over the globe. The US is simply doing it in a smarter, more cunning way, while leading the wealthy 1% in other countries by example.

[–] Greg@lemmy.ca 11 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

No but this isn't recent. My line in the sand was Russian interference in the 2016 US election that came to light in 2018.

*United States Democracy Index

[–] Propheticus@lemmy.zip 9 points 3 hours ago

Yes, but a bad example of one very quickly heading towards autocracy. Some characteristics like screwing up your own economy and blaming 'the foreigners' rings a distant bell.

[–] coaxil@lemm.ee 15 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Not at all, you are just an autocracy now but don't fully realise it, and as the other commentator had said, not even really a good democracy in the loosest of terms before this entire mess going on ATM!

[–] Meron35@lemmy.world 3 points 2 hours ago

Not for a long time. The Economist Democracy Index demoted the US to a "flawed democracy" since 2016, where it has been ever since.

Democracy index, 2024 - https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/democracy-index-eiu

[–] sem@lemmy.ml 9 points 3 hours ago

The answer depends of the reference point. I was born in Russia (I'm living abroad from 2022) and compared to the putin's dictatorship US is a democracy. You guys still have a freedom of speech, not fake opposition to Trump and independent courts. From the other side, most of the countries are democracies if compared to Russia..

[–] Etterra@discuss.online 1 points 1 hour ago

Shit I live inside the US and I barely consider it a democracy.

[–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 7 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Unfortunately, it's still a democracy. The electorate wanted what's now going on. That could rapidly change at this point, but for now not yet.

[–] MoonManKipper@lemmy.world 3 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

Democracy is a sliding scale and the US is still on it. Could the people choose something different without resorting to violent revolution and protest? Yes

[–] Kissaki@feddit.org 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

I'm a bit skeptical about this argument because autocratic states love to hold practically fake and forced elections with 90 or 99 % approval and use that as justification.

[–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 1 points 51 minutes ago

I think the possibly final test for American democracy will be the midterm elections in two years. By then, I think that either trump will have broken the system enough to get a sham election, or we'll see real, verifiable push-back against him. International organisations that monitor elections will probably take part in shaping my opinion on whether the election is fair or not. I think it's worth remembering that whenever countries hold "fake and forced elections" there are plenty of international observers that point out the major rigging going on.

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[–] javacafe01@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I am inside and I want to get out

[–] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 hour ago

Same. Is there a sign up sheet, or...?

[–] rpl6475@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Elective dictatorship, there is no accountability. Is there even a mechanism for the public to recall the president? Or is that it for the next 4 years?

[–] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 hour ago

There is not. He would have to be impeached by the senate, and then convicted by the majority of the Senate. Since the majority are currently his sycophants, it's effectively not an option.

[–] Kidplayer_666@lemm.ee 5 points 3 hours ago

Yes. But becoming more flawed by the day

[–] ACbHrhMJ@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago

Yes, Americans voted for this administration

[–] gezero@lemmy.bowyerhub.uk 6 points 4 hours ago

I do. On my imaginary scale around 4 out of 10. So far the mess looks to me like it was voted in.

[–] Monkyhands@feddit.dk 6 points 4 hours ago

No. I agree with the comment about the electoral system and gerrymandering as fundamental issues. And the current administration does not respect the judiciary branch, that much is clear, and their actions are completely undermining the supposed divisions of power, without which there is no democracy.

[–] cronenthal@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 3 hours ago

No, unfortunately.

[–] NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

A demo-crazy.

Note that it is not democracy what Trumpeltier is destroying at the moment. It is the functioning of the state. This will take so many years to rebuild, if possible at all.

[–] Ziggurat@jlai.lu 4 points 3 hours ago

Serious answer : I am not living there, have no idea how to compare, nor whether the court system works as a safeguard.

Troll answer In democracy you have the right to healthcare and education, so it's been a while it isn't

[–] RambaZamba@feddit.org 3 points 3 hours ago

That's a retorical question, isn't it?

[–] echo@lemmings.world 3 points 3 hours ago
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