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The Republicans have been shutting down the government for less for as long as I can remember. If you can't shut it down when shit getting real that's just pathetic.
I'm sorry have you met the Democratic party? Pathetic is the only way they know to operate.
No compromise. Shut it down.
I think there's legitimate concern that if they do that, they play directly into R plans. Currently tens of thousands of federal workers have taken the buyout, and the Rs are trying to dismantle every agency and encourage workers to step aside, stand down, and go quietly into that good night. Agreeing to a shutdown means the workers aren't going to be paid, and though the government has generally done back pay, I think it's a real concern that it's not going to happen this time. A lot of good people will be forced to leave to keep food on the table. Who does that really benefit? Elon and his ilk/their cronies aren't doing it for the pay, so they can get a skeleton crew to overtake these now empty agencies, and maintain it's for the good of America, while "spending gets sorted out".
it’s not a buy out.
it’s highly illegal, and the courts are very likely to reject it altogether (last I heard, its completely paused.)
that has nothing to do with a spending bill,
With a shut down in place, it halts all non essential work- including stuff that DOGE is trying to do/get rid of.
I don’t know how the fall out will go, but democrats need to stop handing republicans wins… and letting them have their budget would definitely be a win.
You're right on counts 1 & 2, but people have been referring to it as a buy out, so I'm just using that term colloquially, and the fact it's illegal doesn't change the fact that tens of thousands of federal employees are expecting/planning on quitting, since it effectively worked as a mass resignation.
Regarding point 3, I bring it up because essentially by stopping government employees from being paid, it's going to encourage people that were willing to hang on, to be less inclined to do so, depending on the length of the shut down.
Kinda feels like you didn't read my comment, because I already mentioned that stopping government work will not stop DOGE from dismantling the government. I'm not saying one or the other option is definitely better, but I'm sure it's something they're considering. If the government employees aren't there, there's nothing stopping musk et al from barging in and confiscating documents or electronics. Clearly it hasn't stopped them so far, but at least there are people there witnessing it and documenting it. If the shutdown happens and people just start leaving, it definitely makes DOGEs work easier.
I don’t really get this. They don’t need the Democrats to keep the government open, since they have a majority in both chambers. Completely up to the GOP to get the votes lined up.
They need 60 votes- not 50- in the senate. They currently have 52 republicans.
Raising the debt ceiling requires only 50 votes I think. Besides the article is about the house. I don’t see any reason why Dems help out the GOP if they can’t stop defectors.
They’re not even respecting the rule of law, yet they expect them to follow a concession?
Dems shoudl shut down the government before the Republicans have a chance to, except without any precedence for it.
She's falling back into the old "decorum is important" trap which Republicans stopped believing in back in the nineteen hundredn and ninety five with Newt's shutdowns.
Stop kicking Lucy's football, Dems
I disagree, I think it was more like nineteen ninety eight when the Undertaker threw Mankind off Hell In A Cell, and plummeted 16 ft through an announcer's table
Oh shittymorph, wherefore art thou?
Fool Democrats once shame on Republicans. Fool Democrats every 4 years...
Fuck me, Democrats still can’t figure this shit out.
Good god, when will the subset of the Democratic Party with actual balls break off and see where voters stand? I’m sick of this limpdick bullshit.
There's a subset of the Democratic party with balls? I've been voting for them for over 20 years and I haven't seen it yet :(
I find it humorous that when the Dems are the opposition party, they still try to govern....lol
In working democracies that's how it's supposed to work. That's why it's called opposition not obstruction.
The balance to this is that all parties should be responsible while in the opposition and the party in government shouldn't try to reform the state according to medieval principles. And this is why American democracy is broken.
but only when all parties play by the rules...
Democrats have never been opposition, they've always been collusion
I mean the GOP will need Democrat help to pass a budget.
my sweet summer child, budgets haven't occured in the united states for nearly 3 decades....we live quarter to quarter with continuing resolutions
Fair enough, but even then Democrat cooperation will be necessary to pass one of those.
Good news! We're shrinking the size of the federal government. Other good news! We're leaving the parts that are designed to hurt people.
This was so true back when it aired, and is true now
It's one of the few levers they have. If they don't use it they're complicit
They could refuse to cooperate instead of being complcit.
Problem is, government shutdown is what president Elon wants.
Not refusing to refuse is still being complicit. I find it hilarious that inside trading fucks blame progressives every chance they get.
Everytime the government has been shutdown. The party in opposition has been blamed by the public.
If they do this, they need to all be on message and encourage the media to spread the message.
At least we know that Trump and Conservative media aren't good at crafting a message of who to blame.
Hopefully they have a plan...
I don't care who gets blamed because it's unlikely we'll have more, fair(ish) elections.
I just want the dems to slow down fascism long enough the working class has the chance to wake up, organize, and strike.
Everytime the government has been shutdown. The party in opposition has been blamed by the public.
Its more complicated than that. Government shutdowns that are focused on gutting entitlements (as during the '13 shutdown lead by Ted Cruz and his House GOP lackeys) have been unpopular because the goal of the shutdown was unpopular. The GOP got the blame because they took the credit and insisted shutting down the gov to cut popular programs was good politics.
By contrast, the '07 threat by Dems not to raise the Debt Ceiling unless Bush agreed to timetables to pull troops out of Iraq was popular because the occupation had become such a rancid policy for Republicans to defend that extreme measures seemed justified.
At least we know that Trump and Conservative media aren’t good at crafting a message of who to blame.
They don't have to craft the message. The message is crafted by the corporate hacks in Silicon Valley and piped through their social media / tabloid newspaper periodicals of record.
By contrast, Dems have gone out of their way to divorce themselves from friendly media - whether its left-wing podcasters or TikTok influencers or Daily Show anchors - for fear of facing any amount of criticism from a left wing source.
That's what is really eating into the Dems' reputation. They're an entrenched minority party, perpetually safe in their gerrymandered districts but without a popular agenda to rally anyone behind. They're a fully controlled opposition.
Only some Democrats agree? What the fuck are they putting in the water there. Jesus Christ.
Wait? Why do they need Democrat help if they have the majority? Am I missing something?
Because they have a few contrarians within the party. Like the Freedumb Caucus who reflexively vote against everything except the most draconian austerity politics with no concessions.
It really doesn’t seem like Republicans want to keep the government going.
Republicans may see a shutdown as another opportunity to devolve power from the legislature to the executive branch.
As much as it will suck for the people, I feel like shutting down the government may be the best move to stop the current administration from tearing it apart further.
I want no tax cuts. If they're serious about the deficit (they're not) then more tax cuts for the rich make no sense. A fair compromise would be some modest budget cuts and no tax cuts to shrink the deficit.
Id also like to see some more transparency and oversight into President Elon, and maybe some guardrails.
She says this once a week.
Won't fElon just continue paying Republicans anyway and just not pay the Democrats?
So this is how we get anarchy finally?
No, the hierarchy supported by violence will still exist (they'll call them 'essential' and exempt from the shutdown), citizens will just have even less representation in how it's run
How do we tell them to shut it all down?