this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2024
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116
Tom Hanks Explains Why Comic Book Movies Are Flopping (variety.com)
submitted 1 week ago by GreenEngineering3475@lemmy.world to c/movies@lemmy.world
47 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Tom Hanks says moviegoers are no longer interested in VFX spectacles and are returning to good storytelling.

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[–] MerrySkeptic@sh.itjust.works 152 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

Audiences have always been interested in good storytelling. The reason the MCU took off was because it told good stories. The problem is that the stories have become too formulaic or half-baked.

People showed up for Deadpool and Wolverine, so the issue isn't about comic book movies.

EDIT: My comment about D&W isn't meant to hold it up as an example of good storytelling. As I said, the stories have become formulaic. My mentioning of it is meant to point out that many comic book movies succeed despite mediocre storytelling. You can't say "audiences are tired of comic book movies" when many are still clearly successful.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 67 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

Ah good, a Marvel movie! I wonder what will happen?

  • Super cool opening number showing how awesome it is
  • Baddy makes huge entrance and introduces themselves to the protagonist
  • Who is this guy? Let's get some backstory
  • Funny cameo
  • First fight with baddy, which is lost
  • Self reflection, pump up talk, You're the god of thunder not the god of hammers, I'm taking the suit back, etc etc
  • Huge baddy fight which is awesome, optional expensive background music
  • Quick wrap up with slight cliffhanger for sequel

Ah that was fun, did it feel similar to <> though?

(And I say this as someone who loved the marvel movies, up until endgame, but everything since phase 3 has followed this pattern very closely)

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Don't forget how the bad guy is just a bigger, badder version of the hero.

[–] MummifiedClient5000@feddit.dk 22 points 1 week ago (1 children)

"We're not so different, you and I"

[–] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

I'm not strong enough, but I'll use my actual secret power: Screaming.

[–] Zahille7@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

I hate how we can't just have villains anymore. It's either a future corrupted version of our current hero, or we spend about a third of the runtime making our villains relatable so people can be upset when the consequences finally catch up to them.

Imo we don't need relatable villains, which is ironic because I used to think being evil for the sake of being evil was annoying, until it went away.

[–] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

IW killed it, it broke us completely.

Endgame was expurgation, but we're still so overloaded, I think the only thing even remotely interesting to me has been loki. And that's just because tom h is the most charming thing to exist.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 3 points 1 week ago

I loved IW and even endgame. But looking back, even it followed the same pattern, just in longer form. IW ends with the first fight with baddy, which is lost. Once you see the pattern you can't unsee it

[–] scytale@lemm.ee 37 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I’d say hype and seeing Hugh Jackman again was what carried D&W, not really the storytelling. When you peel away the character hype and humor, the story was actually pretty bland.

[–] state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de 28 points 1 week ago (1 children)

D&W was two hours of pure fanservice. The story was extremely forgettable and I think that was intentional.

[–] TBi@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

And still a good movie!

[–] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The story was a temu version of loki.

Wolverine was by far the best part, even with all the attempted fan service.

But man, the first D vs W fight, and then when he pulled up his mask.

[–] okamiueru@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

Are you suggesting that Deadpool vs Wolverine is an example of good storytelling?

Edit: I found it to be entertaining enough, I expected only fan service, and I'm glad I kept it at that. But story wise? I cannot think of a marvel movie that was worse in that regard. It didn't need to, of course... I just did a double take at this being used as an example for a good story. The borderline omnipotent and omniscient antagonist wants to destroy the universe because someone relatively unimportant didn't keep their word? groan.

[–] MintyFresh@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

I watched it recently, not expecting much. And was still disappointed.

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

In context of this conversation Deadpool vs Wolverine would be storytelling of storytelling. Great examples are all the breaking of the forth wall and exploration of tangential stories or actors that had short lives or never made it off a writers page. It was less a single cohesive story and more a moving about storytelling.

[–] Pistcow@lemm.ee 5 points 1 week ago

yes

[–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I just have to chime in to say that Godzilla Minus One is a masterpiece in terms of story telling and VFX. You don't have to be a fan of Godzilla or anything in particular, this movie is 10/10 in all categories. Blew my fucking mind!

[–] killabeezio@lemm.ee 4 points 1 week ago

Not a fan of the "modern" style Godzilla movies. This one was really good.

[–] Mercuri@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Adding it to my watch list. 👍

[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 23 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I like VFX .... what I don't like is the monotonous repetitive stories from comic book movies

  • intro of hero
  • hero is attacked by villain
  • villain wins and is more powerful
  • hero fights back but loses
  • villain is winning
  • hero fights back again ... wins at the last possible moment
  • everyone lives happily ever after
[–] shoulderoforion@fedia.io 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

*insert faceless army of disposables

[–] DODOKING38@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

Literally lots of movies could boil down to that, the fucking journey is what matters, we all the know the good guy wins in the end

[–] shoulderoforion@fedia.io 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Having just bombed in an almost solely VFX production, this man knows what he's talking about

[–] state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What was he in?

[–] executivechimp@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Polar Express

[–] state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

That "just bombed" is doing some very heavy lifting here, considering that Polar Express was released 20 years ago.

[–] FantasmaNaCasca@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Its some new Zemekis movie where he uses AI to go through 60 years of a person life.

Can't be bothered to search.

[–] state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 week ago

Here (2024) apparently.

[–] executivechimp@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yes, that was the joke.

[–] state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 week ago

Oh, didn't notice you weren't the one I replied to.

[–] acosmichippo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

“just”?

[–] executivechimp@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 week ago

He was in Big, too.

[–] Empricorn@feddit.nl 13 points 1 week ago

I feel like quality is severely underestimated here. Everybody now has 1-tap access to aggregate reviews from seasoned reviewers and regular audiences. When a movie sucks, everyone finds out and your marketing budget suddenly means nothing.

Good movies aren't guaranteed to make a profit, but in 2024, bad ones are pretty much guaranteed not to. This is completely independent of a single element like VFX.

[–] fubarx@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 week ago (1 children)

One of the prime rules of storytelling is that the hero has to have a flaw.

Superman is super. He can't lose. That's why the writers introduced Kryptonite. Captain America is a super-soldier, but is still mortal. Thor is a god, but can lose his hammer and his powers.

The problem with Superhero movies is that they all got so much power they became invincible, and boring.

Good, classic storytelling beats VFX 10/10.

[–] grayhaze@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

I'd argue that they still meet the criteria, even the seemingly invincible characters, by making their flaw caring about someone close to them. Villains these days often present a danger not because they're capable of killing the hero, but because the hero has a close personal attachment to someone that isn't invincible.

[–] b34k@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

But we can just have AI write the stories now. I’ll be much faster and cheaper than hiring writers. And I’m sure it’ll be just as good.

[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

He is right, but overlooking a major detail when it comes to flops.

Spectacle movies have consistently flopped when the story sucks. The early Marvel movies were fairly solid and built up the brand, Nolan's Batman trilogy was pretty solid, and even Snyder's DC fare was doing ok even if it would have been far more popular by not rushing overstuffed BvS and Justice League.

But Green Lantern flopped in 2011, and like the newer movies that are flopping the massive budget was the main issue. Spectacle on its own was never enough to draw in enough butts in seats to make a $200 million dollar budget movie profitable. Even more so now that there are multiple movies with $200 million dollar budgets competing for the same viewing audience.

So yeah, the story side has been dragging down the more recent comic book movies overall but the real killer is the massive budgets. Deadpool didn't actually need to trade the spectacle for story, but they did need to aim for a reasonable amount of spectacle.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 8 points 1 week ago

If only Hollywood would understand that.

[–] roofuskit@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Funny how someone always talks shit about comic book movies after one of their movies gets bad reviews.

[–] darkdemize@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Nah. I've been talking shit about Marvel movies since the first Xmen movies came out.

[–] Empricorn@feddit.nl 3 points 1 week ago

Lol the term "Marvel movie" didn't even exist back then! And they didn't start making movies until 4 years later...

[–] roofuskit@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

Did you star in movie that got bad reviews?

Also those weren't made by Marvel.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah! We demand something original and compelling! Like Megalopolis!

Oh, wait...

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/title/tt10128846/?ref_=bo_se_r_1

[–] GreenEngineering3475@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Or something like "Here"

wait how's that going

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/title/tt18272208/

[–] taiyang@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

Did Tom Hanks just watch Agatha All Along? Jac Schaeffers MCU work seems to be the only one carrying post phase 3. That and Loki at least.