I don't see anything wrong with the electric motorcycles, but they shouldn't be on a pedestrian or bicycle path, they should be on the street and you should need a license to drive them just like any other motorized vehicles capable of those speeds.
this post was submitted on 14 Sep 2024
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Electric motorcycles and electric bicycles are two very different things.
Well they were. But these fatbikes bring them on par, with a throttle instead of having to pedal, a riding stance similar a scooter and an unlocked speed limit.
That's not a fatbike / bicycle then, but I have no idea about the context here. The photo shows a regular fatbike hardtail, with rather small tires even.
There is a link to the article without paywall somewhere in the comments, but yes, the image is a wrong one (or actually a real, non electric mtb fatbike). The “fatbikes” we have here in the Netherlands look like this:
I don't see a paywall, it just does not contain anything but the stock photo. Your example looks more like a moped, which is indeed a motorcycle and should fall under the same regulations.
The problem the government faces is how to make a distinction between moped and a classic e-bike. Because from the factory there is no real difference apart from “oh it looks a bit like a moped”. My vote goes to setting the minimum age for assisted riding at 16 (except medical reasons) or at least obligating having a helmet under the age of 18 (to protect their poor undeveloped brains). Which will immediately kill the attraction which is to ride a moped without helmet. The real challenge is regulating e-bike unlocking in general (as well as adding a throttle). Which is hard because the electronics can quickly be set back to factory with a click of a button.
That's the issue. They aren't supposed to go that fast. It's an illegal alteration for a reason. And we are talking about teenagers.
They don't need a driver's licience to ride a bicycle. So people may not know how to traverse traffic safely if they go on the car lanes. Or not care about safety as teenagers tend to do.
But the fatbike fad — they are especially popular among teenagers — has triggered a myriad of complaints and prompted a call for new legislation aimed at restricting their use.
Apart from the humming noise made by the large tyres on the road, authorities are also concerned at the ease in bypassing software that restricts their speed to the legal limit.
I'm sure the same people complaining about fat bike tire noise have never once complained about the much louder sound of car and truck tires.
Wait, hang the fuck on...
the ease in bypassing software that restricts their speed to the legal limit.
As opposed to the insurmountable difficulty of pressing the car's accelerator pedal a bit harder?
It's an issue when these vehicle sharing the same bike lane with mostly slow moving bike. They've already done with fighting car so I don't think it's fair to just bring car into the mix. These thing is already a moped if it can exceed road bike speed with ease.
Yeah the Netherlands has basically a dedicated bicycle infrastructure meant for pedal cycles. There is a whole bunch of context for this story that is easy to miss if you don’t live there.
It’s not about cars vs e-bikes - it’s about not being allowed to bring an ultra powered bike that’s unsafe for other riders. It’s more akin to how your car has to follow regulations to be allowed on the road.
That shit about noise is just old people being old people. It’s the potential safety issues that got these bikes held up in customs.
Yeah, we're talking about Netherlands here, the cycling haven of Earth, if they think these super pedelec is an issue on bike lane you better take note of it if you want a safe cycling city. These thing have the max speed of 30 to 40mph(48/64kmph) after unlocked and it would get really ugly if it hit someone, as people there tend to not wear helmet when riding bicycle because it's unnecessary and super safe to do so.
If you ever had a car/moped/motorcycle that zoom by you in 50kmph while riding on the road you know how scarry that is.
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the cars don't use the bike lane.
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Fuck off mate. We have seperate lanes for bikes and cars. We've been hating on vehicles going too fast on the bike lane since their existance. Scooters, e-bikes and anything else that's a danger to other cyclists.
Both of you need to chill the fuck out: You can disagree and argue without the personal attacks.
Both of you get a temporary ban. In the future when you are here you need to win your arguments without attacking the person.
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It's the Netherlands, if you're a self-described cyclist, they like bikes more than you do. Your assertion is a bad one.
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I'm going full old man yells at cloud here, but here goes. I have no problem with E-bikes. They are great, green modes of transportation. Having said that, they are motorized, and imo basically an electric Vespa. To ride one you should be required to be licensed in the state. I see a bunch of 12 -15 year old boys ripping these through the park. Imo this is wildly irresponsible parenting, and going to cause a ton of broken bones and deaths. Kids treat these as toys and have 0 regard for the law. I have seen far too many near collisions when taking my kids to the local park. I think (don't quote me on this) you don't need to be licensed for E-bikes and they are treated the same as bicycles here. I'm just assuming because I've seen cops look the other way. When I was a kid, go-ped scooters with 2 stroke engines were all the rage among this age group, and eventually the law caught up and I stopped seeing kids riding them. Now it's the same with E-bikes. I get that kids in this age group want some kind of transportation to go hang out and all, but it's dangerous having underage, unlicensed people operating them.
You don't need a licence if they are in the category of electric bike, meaning they cannot be self propelled (you need to peddle) and they have a limiter limiting the speed to 25 km/h.
Unfortunately, these things are wicked easy to circumvent. Many retailers will sell you a throttle (meant for moving the bike while walking with it) and changing the speed limiter and peddle requirement is as easy as going into the software settings. This results into what is effectively an electric moped without the licence plate and requirement. According to the law, such a vehicle requires you have a license and wear a helmet, but of course nobody does.
Ebikes are regulated in the EU, they're nothing like Vespa. What you're referring to is an electric motorbike and already requires a license. What is needed is enforcement.
Technically you are right.
The fat bike is considered to be a normal electric 25km/h bike (here in NL).
What changed (our view) on it was that some Chinese brands made it possible to raise the speed by doing a trivial change (either hardware or software) allowing speeds upto 45km/h.
In some extreme cases even higher.
Combine this with 12 year olds with soft skulls and you have the reason why the legal age is going to be raised to 16 years old and wearing a helmet.
And the old man in me screams: also require some training and a license for it.
And yes, I hate those things with a vengeance and have an opinion on everyone on such a vehicle. They are noisy, tent to break the speed limits and attract a certain type of people.
Old man signing off.
Is there a requirement for how much assistance the bike can give. Because I see kids hardly pedaling and still going 25km/h.
And yeah, these bikes are upgraded by people and not following code. But enforcement has started. The police needed new Rollerbanks.. and these have now been distributed. They can now check mopeds and e-bikes on the same device.
But then, I'd be for age restricting e-bikes and possibly even giving them tags and requiring bike helmets... so...
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I agree, licensure is appropriate for electric bikes that work like petrol powered bikes. If you use a hand control or foot control to make the bike accelerate it is a vehicle with similar enough properties to a motorbike or motorised scooter that it should require a license plate, registration, and driver's license.
That said, anything that does assist only is more like a mobility scooter or bike with training wheels. You may not be able to go as long as you can with the electric bike by yourself, but if the drive characteristics are similar then it should be a bike. Those characteristics are speed, stop distance, involvement with the generation of motion, and how the weight is balanced.
So a bike that assists when going up a hill but won't help you go faster past a certain speed is not fundamentally changing how you behave on the bike, but if you can twist the handle and get acceleration beyond your personal max speed it is clearly different.
If we could have many more people riding electric bikes which behave like supported push bikes then there would be fewer cars on the road, more exercise for people, and no massive increase in risk, actually probably a decrease due to fewer bikes being hit by the reduced number of cars.
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This article reads like an awesome ad and meow I want one of these bikes.
Buy two so you can make an ebike chariot!
Buy 8 so you can make a train
Buy 16 so you can make a tank
noncredibledefense must be leaking...
Mine is pretty sweet... The tires made it much more comfortable to ride in general and having the motor for the assist on hills is frikken amazing. Really helps prevent the deterrence against using it as a bike.
The motors have quite the kick too... I expect the urge to get into trouble is great.
did a cat write this?
Meow can you tell?
The prose are all nimbly bimbly!
Yeah, they're basically electric motorcycles, and it makes sense that'd they'd be held.
Heh, I think I just got one of these types inadvertently.
1000 watt motor (2x 500), large batt etc... I think it does close to 35 mph if I try but I haven't even taken it out of pedal assist yet.
I'm in USA, so laws are more localized. I suspect this thing might be illegal, but it's gray area right now. Gonna just behave with it and hope for the best.
The concern I would have is that currently there isn't great established ways to get something like this clearly made legal... And I have a needed use case.
I weigh enough that clearly legal lower wattage bikes are all not rated for me... Barely. I'm using the bike to lose weight. In the interim, this is what works.
I hope they clear it in some capacity, like just age or "legal until you are stupid" like riding it on public sidewalks or such. A wattage limit overall is stupid unless there's a way to certify you will behave.
The way laws like this tend to be enforced is generally either someone has to report you or you have to cause a problem and then are also retroactively charged for the other infractions. So if you are already doing your best to be safe and not annoying, that's all you can do. Fly under the radar.
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Mostly food delivery drivers in my city. They are a nuisance and make bike paths feel less safe and chill.
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