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This is one of the supposed benefits of the free market. If left alone, under normal conditions, what's supposed to happen is that badly ran, uncompetitive firms end up showing themselves the door, making room for new market competitors who may not be so badly managed. Don't fucking save them, especially don't advocate for saving them if you claim to love free markets.
The problem with free markets is they are incredibly unstable and create booms and busts and people don't like this so we get the worst of all worlds which is unfettered capitalism and no competition or failure weeding out poorly managed companies. Maybe free markets are just a shitty ideal?
Maybe free markets are just a shitty ideal?
Yes. The answer to that question is yes. Free market capitalism encourages cutthroat competition in which the only factor in any decision-making process is maximizing profits. Safety isn't a factor. Employee well-being isn't a factor. National security isn't a factor. The economy at large isn't a factor. Long term investments aren't even a factor. Line go up this quarter equals good quarter. Regulations ensure mandatory minimums for societal prosperity.
Agreed, but the big players have their hands tied up in Congress and the military so much that it's not gonna happen.
Then they should be nationalized, because they've already got the benefits, but none of the downsides, while the public get none of the benefits, and all of the downsides... At this point "too big to fail" are essentially critical government infrastructure setup by wealthy criminals to steal directly from tax payers.
Nationalizing industries? In America? We don't do that here, friend. We give corporations massive bailouts and forgive all felonies.
Look I'm fine if the govt wants to say a particular corporation is too big to fail. But trying to let that company remain private is not how too big to fail works. If you want a bailout, the govt owns your company, and the govt is obliged to maintain ownership for as long as it's deemed too big to fail...e.g. critical to national interests.
Personally I think all publicly traded companies should be partly owned by the people... Like sure you can have an IPO, and still make a zillion dollars... But society automatically owns a large enough share that you have to check with us before doing anything drastic
I'm so sick of companies pissing away all of their profit and money to make rich people richer then when the smallest problem hits it is our problem. We pay. Fuck them.
Looking at this (below) with some super sloppy math they have made in the last ten years 25 billion in profits and 5 billion in losses totally 20 billion in profits (give or take as my interest in totalling this accurately is zero). The fact that they used their money irresponsibly and didn't say for a raining day, or it's raining planes day, is not the tax payers that need to save them. I'm in my mid 30s, you know how many times I've seen extremely profitable and successful "too big to fail" businesses bailed out. Fuck the fucking fuckers and anyone who trys and correct my math.
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/BA/boeing/gross-profit
Between 1998 and 2018, the plane manufacturer also manufactured a whopping $61.0 billion in stock buybacks, amounting to 81.8 percent of its profits. Add in dividends and Boeing's shareholders received 121 percent of its profits.
Stock buybacks should be illegal or at least heavily regulated. They're stealing money from their employees, putting their company in peril by not having cash on hand, and stunting innovation. Imagine if major companies had to put profit back into their company? Instead it's a game to see how much you can exploit the working class, how little you can innovate and still get by (it's easy when you have no competition), and gamble (after lobbying with minimal money) that your political plants will force the taxpayers you're exploiting to bail you out. It's pretty disgusting.
https://greenalphaadvisors.com/boeings-struggles-highlight-the-perils-of-stock-buybacks/
https://www.tipranks.com/stocks/ba/buybacks#google_vignette --> they're still doing it as of March of this year.
If it is of national importance, then let’s nationalize it
That would make a lot of sense ...until we're reminded that USA is a kleptocracy, masquerading under a thick coating of we the people, freedom!™, liberty and justice for ~~all~~a select group of people. Then it becomes clear the obvious and only solution, is for the government to pump a couple billions into Boeing.
Maybe Boeing should have thought of that before making poor decisions. It should learn a little something called personal responsibility and if it goes broke, well, that'll be a shame. Anyway!
If Boeing had just put a few dollars a week into a savings account when it was 18, it could have retired by now.
Boeing stopped pulling on its bootstraps and wants government welfare.
Can't wait to see another multi-billion dollar corporation get bailed out while I still don't have health insurance, and I'm still paying off credit card debt from during the Pandemic when the government gave people a measly $2400 over two years but handed out PPP loans and forgiveness to anyone that asked.
Fuck this country makes me ashamed to be a veteran.
there's a long, proud tradition in this country of screwing over veterans starting in 1776
Capitalists: Under capitalism inefficient companies fail, and this is good.
Also capitalists: Save Boeing!!!11oneone
If a for-profit company needs to be rescued they usually shouldn’t be rescued.
oh, I see how it is, you want poor American workers to lose their jobs, eh? now give us money fucking slave.
We could take all the theoretical bailout money and just give it to the newly unemployed workers.
Oww, poor litlle boeing, not having enough money :C
Maybe they would still have some, if they didn't pay hitmen, they probably don't come cheap.
Let 'em die. No, fine them even more, and lock up the management.
deprivatize the aerospace industry. imagine the boon to the American economy if these failing, debt-ridden, dysfunctional aerospace manufacturers and airlines were replaced by a massive jobs program with the goal of optimizing air travel safety, affordability, and access. we're a big country. we could massively benefit from an aeronautical empire that gives any person safe, enjoyable 30 dollar flights, coast to coast.
(edit, oops, forgot a prefix. wow)
Government: It's too big to fail!
Me: The last time you said that the Banks you bailed out made record profits.
here's some bootstraps mate, good luck!
also get fucked. what needs to be saved is the people from your utter disregard for human life.
you should use the last bit of your money to fly your CEO and entire management on one of your shitty planes and watch them fly through whatever fucking hole inevitably opens up.
Boeing, and anyone like them, NEEDS to fail.
Hrmm... I miss the part where that's my problem.
Maybe boeing needs to die so it can be replaced with something that does a better job.
Hey Boeing, welcome to capitalism!
Have to laugh while dying a little inside when 'free market' people cry about banks, insurance companies, real estate, and other mega corps 'needing' bailouts.
Isn't that the essence of the free market? If companies suck shit, they die. The American people need a fucking bailout right now before another international corporation.
I guess it's time for them to break up the company and sell to others who can pick up the reins and rebuild. They made this bed. The shareholders have made their money for years and years at a cost of human lives as seen time and time again. The shareholders could always pay back the formerly ever increasing dividends they have reaped over the past 10 years if they want to bail out the company they own.
No more taxpayer bailouts for the ownership class.
Privatize the profits and socialize the losses.
Fuck Boeing and Jim Cramer, especially.
As a big fan of capitalism - go die Boeing. It's not the taxpayers job to bail you out because of stupid decision you made.
I love this comments section.
Structured bankruptcy is not the cataclysmic event CEOs and major shareholders want you to believe.
I know a startup that declared bankruptcy and "sold" to another organization... owned by the startup holders... to avoid paying debt.
It's all a game to take more money out of taxpayers.
"We moved all our production to non union factories across the country and put out shittier products, now we can't pay bills anymore!!"
With everything I know about Jim Cramer, that means Boeing is doing great and I should probably invest in it now
Nationalise it if it’s too big to fail but can no longer operate as a public company.
Did they try not cutting costs to the point planes fall out of the sky?
Did they try pulling themselves up by their bootstraps?
Keep in mind the "company" might run out of money.
This does not mean the CEO's and higher ups don't get their 100 million$$ paycheck.
If those paychecks were proportional the company would have money and record profits again.
That + bailout means CEO and share members get major pay
Golden parachutes should be illegal.