Ask Lemmy

You know what you'll never have to do to an electric vehicle?

Replace a stolen catalytic converter.

A gas car costs twice as much as a gas car after like 100k miles or so... you end up paying for some random ass shit that broke every couple months. Alternator here, transmission there, radiator, head gasket, O2 sensors, rusted out muffler, injectors... it's not like your gas motor just keeps on trucking forever and doesn't nickel and dime the fuck out of you as it ages. An EV is mainly just gonna lose some capacity as it gets elderly, and isn't likely to have random little repairs as often.

If you ain't super well off, you roll your shit til the wheels fall off, and with an EV, that's just going to mean that the Tesla that goes 300 miles on a charge today, in ten years, is gonna be a Tesla that goes 150 miles on a charge, and there's going to be people that will rock that old ass battery pack for as long as itll keep rocking, and a lot of those packs aren't actually going to get replaced at the age everyone is claiming they will be.

Battery pack might be the whole ass cost of the car, but poo-pooing EVs over it is disingenuous if you ask me.

I've had an EV as my only vehicle for about 5 years. The biggest cost of maintenance was replacing my tires. Then replacing one of the new tires after I ran over something and put a big hole in one of them.

The regular maintenance on it has been effectively zero. I don't have any fluids to change (other than windshield wiper fluid) or other regular maintenance tasks other than tire related things. My parents have had an EV for something like 8 or 9 years and their experience has been similar.

The "it'll cost you a bazillion dollars to replace your battery" thing is stupid. Most batteries will last as long as the car.

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/03/worry-over-battery-lifespan-putting-you-off-buying-an-ev-relax-says-new-study/

I have an electric car from 2011. The battery has had no maintenance, and hasn't been replaced.

So far the car has had 2-3 new 12V batteries, at least one new set of tires, windscreen wipers replaced once, and the air conditioner filter replaced a few times. I'm not aware of any other maintenance done to the car.

I suspect the car could have driven up to 150km (95mi) when new, and is now down to 80km (50mi) range. It gets driven no more than 10km in a day, so I suspect it will still be useful to me for another 10 years.

It has saved me a huge amount in fuel, and has barely cost me anything to run.

I believe this is the total cost of ownership calculation.

https://afdc.energy.gov/calc/

https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/

It looks like you can construct scenarios where ICE cars are cheaper than EVs by a fine margin, for instance a mid-sized car that you own for just the wrong amount of time in a country with a high gas subsidy (the United States, for instance) that you don't drive much. However, for most scenarios, it seems you'll save 10-15% on the total cost of ownership.

The acronyms TCO (total cost of ownership), ICE (internal combustion engine) and EV (electric vehicle) may help you should you decide to continue research on your own.

Source: https://nickelinstitute.org/en/about-nickel-and-its-applications/nickel-in-batteries/total-cost-of-ownership-tco-for-electric-vehicles-ev-vs-internal-combustion-engine-vehicles-ice/

I have solar panels at home which generate way more than enough for my home and EV (and still costs less than my old electric bill before solar), so I count charging as free.

People here keep mentioning battery degradation and replacement costs. I got a Kia EV6 and I love it. I tried many other EVs at the time earlier in 2023 when I bought it and the EV6 blew them all out of the water on both features, quality, and (surprisingly) price. And they also have a 10 year warranty for the battery. They mentioned that it would also qualify for free replacement under the warranty based on degradation if it's past a certain amount. I need to pull out the paperwork and check the criteria.

As far as price comparison to ICE vehicles, I think a fully kitted Mazda CX5 is a good comparison. It's about 42k with 22-27 mpg, so would cost me around $150/mo in gas. Over 10 years that's $18k for gas. Compare to the EV6 that I got for around $65k. I'll definitely save that extra $5k in maintenance costs over 10 years.

Due to the fact that it doesn't have a bunch of moving parts wearing down constantly like an ICE vehicle would, it'll probably last longer than 10 years. Most ICE vehicles I've owned start to become a real hassle after 7 years. I also appreciate not having to constantly get maintenance too.

Helping reduce pollutants is nice, but that's a bit of a heated discussion due to what's required in lithium mining. Even so, it at least feels like I'm trying to do the right thing.

And lastly, EVs are just plain more fun to drive! The linear acceleration is a little weird to adjust to, but it means steady and fast acceleration from standstill since you don't have to change gears, jolting the passengers just to get up to speed. And I don't feel like accelerating a bit quickly is financially irresponsible either since I'm not burning extra gas to do it. When I'm in my gas car, I can practically see the dollars burning away.

It has been three years since I got my electric car. So far I have gone to the dealership once a year for maintenance. Under 500 for maintenance in 3 years also well under 100 dollars in charging costs in those three years because I charge it at work most of the time and just sign out 15 mins early to give them free work in trade for charging.

I operated an electric vehicle between 2016 and 2020. All costs included, I paid a bit under 300 EUR per months for 25.000km / year.

I operated different gasoline vehicles between 2007 and 2014. All costs included, I paid a bit under 300 EUR per months for roughly 25.000km/ year.

From that I conclude it doesn't matter enough to make it a big topic, but at least here in Germany, both electricity and gasoline prices have skyrocketed since, so, who knows. Charging cost may be cheaper if you can charge at home.

Perspective from India:

28% GST for spare parts of electric vehicles and the companies play monopoly by raising the price of the spare parts by 5x to 10x.

If we don't use original parts sold by them and do maintenance outside the vehicle will not be covered under warranty.

There were many fire accidents due to the hot climate, which requires the warranty in place.

It's kind of a nightmare to own an electric vehicle in India.

It's good for someone who drives for more than 50km in a day. They can save on fuel, which will be higher than all other costs. The fossil fuel is 10x higher covering the same distance in an electric vehicle.

When it costs the costs are high. Electric vehicles still have coolant (2 different coolant systems, one for the battery pack and one for the electric motor), a hydraulic braking system and tires that will need to be replaced. But one of the best electric cars on the market was the electric ford focus, and they were really reliable. Except when the coolant system leaked onto the high voltage battery connections. When that happens it fries the battery and requires both battery packs to be replaced. To the tune of something like $20K each (from ford). This cars MSRP was something like $30K. The cost is so exorbitant that there are a few companies that will rebuild the cells rather than replace the battery packs themselves. I don't know for sure whether that would work in the case of the focus, but even then the Labor involved would still also be expensive.

The lifetime of the car may be how long those battery packs are meant to last. But what happens when they don't get the same range they had when you bought them? Battery tech gets better every single year. We make new strides in longevity, rechargeability, and sustainability. Each year the cost to manufacture them decreases as the process is further dialled in and streamlined. But the cost of cars continues to go up and tax credits for electric vehicles will probably not be the norm once they reach wide scale adoption.

On top of that, Tesla's in particular have some significant build quality issues recently.

I brought up the focus because they're out of factory warranty by now and likely to have at least one costly repair in their lifetime. People here are attesting to their own personal experiences with electric vehicles. But there are people out there who don't have the same experience.

Still way cheaper even if you replace the battery when recommended (7 years ish)

Add in the minimal to zero auto maintenance and your EV just keeps getting cheaper every time Tucker's bronco needs an oil change and filter.

"Maintenance" for your battery isn't something that costs you every month. Nobody is going to open the thing and fiddle with it and turn screws etc.

It all consists of 1. how you are using it and 2. how good is your battery controller, hardware and software.

I have seen an old guy on TV who was driving his Tesla daily as a salesman, and he reported about several hundred thousand miles on his first battery and then twice as much on his second. He said he does never ever charge it above 80% and never discharge below 20%.

It is hard to calculate. Some batteries will last longer because of didferent designs and environment. Sane with impacts of mining. It gets more complex since each country has different laws about how dispose of waste. That said studies i have read put the green point at aroynd 30 to 40 thousand miles.

Now Toyota's researches found that plug in hybrids are better right now. Do to lower battey cost, and limited supply of batteries.

I remember a long time ago Tesla said they wanted a million mile battery. Batteries are improving pretty quickly, but gas isn't.