785
Trump lied and Biden got tongue tied at the first debate. So why is the world only focusing on one?
(www.independent.co.uk)
this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2024
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politics
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You are right, the Democratic administration is fucking terrible. But its still better than the republicans. Can’t wait to vote third party on the next election cycle when people tell me i can vote how i wish.
You can always vote how you wish. Voting third party in the presidential election is always just a vanity vote. Nothing about the next election will change this. If you want to change it, you're going to have to go out and work from the ground up.
I believe that the Democrat Party is so terrible that the second the republicans ease up, the built up hate against the democrats will make third parties more palatable, or the democrats will take their head out of their collective asses and push left policies.
Even if a third party rises up and unseats a major party, we'll still revert quickly to a two party system and the issue will persist. This is what I mean about it being a vanity vote: it solves nothing.
If you want to dismantle the two party system, you have to change how we vote. That ain't coming from the top down. Get out locally and support groups and policies that push star or ranked choice voting. This is how we get that change.
Voting in a presidential election, as of now, is a strategic decision. For the vast majority of people, that means voting for the "lesser of two evils" as much as we hate it.
Not going to happen locally as long as democrats are in power. So my first order of business is to vote them out. I already mentioned that i was voting Biden i am quite sure
Well, I have local democrats who are actually pushing the change, so I disagree. However, even if what you say is true, your ability to influence policy is much greater locally, so you can unseat democrats there. My point still stands: voting third party in the presidential election has virtually no hope of solving the problem.
DC https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/08/08/dc-ranked-choice-ballot-measure-open-primaries-lawsuit/
New York https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/12/democrats-election-ranked-choice-voting-new-york/617461/
California https://ballot-access.org/2022/02/20/california-bill-to-ban-ranked-choice-voting/
Nevada https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/sisolak-rosen-and-other-top-democrats-oppose-ranked-choice-voting-measure
It’s a Democratic platform to oppose RCV and with such excuses as it will confuse the black population. Just… woof…
I was specifically told that i could vote my opinion on the matter after the presidential election, but not a second before.
Wow, really got that talking point and sticking to it.
Its probably the single most consistent message i get here. Its a part of the package of “you can’t talk shit about the democrats because whataboutism or something” and “only democrats are interested in left leaning policies, it’s just not a good time to actually do it right now” or “your vote matters and is worth just as much as everyone else’s” and my favorite “sometimes you just have to accept that the democrats have to be the ones to walk the negotiation table, it’s important to try to win that moderate that is on the fence”
I agree with you all the way up to voting 3rd party.
It has never worked out how everyone thinks it will. Why would this time be different?
We have first past the post here. Meaning first across the finish line. And 2 candidates are neck and neck a few steps from it. You can vote for one of them to pull into the lead a bit OR you can vote for a person still standing at the starting line that has no hope to ever win.
It's wild to me that people don't see that. It's about keeping Trump from winning and ACCELERATING THE GAZA GENOCIDE!!!! There just simply isn't the momentum to elect a 3rd party right now this cycle so close to the end. You have to start that momentum and push WAYYY sooner and be competitive and stay close to the lead or it is over for you.
Voting 3rd party now is like sticking your head in the sand and ignoring reality.
I completely understand that neither main candidate is perfect.
If Trump wins, but your vote could have helped Biden win, how will your conscience handle that? Knowing you could have at least stopped Trump, but didn't? Is feeling good about your vote going to outweigh the reality if Trump wins?
It's like refusing to put out a fire with dirty water so you let the whole building burn down. Let's use the dirty water and stop the fire and THEN clean up the muddy mess from it.
I think we both agree that first past the post is a blight. And the only option to stop that would be either voting third party, or a violent Revolution that sees both parties on the end of a rope. The democrats have killed changing voting to ranked choice at local levels, even after being successfully voted for, because just like republicans they know that not allowing a choice is the only thing giving them power. The second that there is risk free voting for platforms you actually care about, they are fucking done.