this post was submitted on 02 Apr 2024
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I personally know someone who totaled 4 cars before turning 18. He literally treated the gas as an on/off switch.
So people that bad at driving are out there.
Truth be told, drivers here in the US are TOTALLY untrained for the most part. My oldest is currently in driver's Ed and it is a joke, in regards to actually how to drive a car. I have spent a lot of time training him as I have a long history taking racing and advanced driving courses. I've held SCCA and FIA racing licenses and I have taken some courses that are usually reserved for police officers The only problem is I do not feel that I'm a very good teacher for him. But he has picked up some things, even if he isn't up for threshold or trail braking.
Most of the USA also seems to lack options for adults to take a class and be given professional instruction on how to drive, for some odd reason. If you're out of high school there are no classes for you.
I wonder if it's like that in most other countries as well?
Learning to drive as part of high school is a super American thing that is really indicative of your attitudes towards driving and car ownership
It's pretty standard in Britain to learn to drive when you're 17. The testing seems to be much more rigorous than whatever happens in America though, and Anon would hopefully have lost their licence by now!
I suppose it is technically possible for Anon to have been ruled to not be at fault for all of those accidents, but that's like winning the lottery twice.
Unfortunately in huge swaths of America a driver's license is practically a necessity -- there are no realistic alternatives. A 30 minute to an hour drive to go to work or get groceries isn't uncommon.
Not in Hungary. Getting a category B license, which covers automobiles and mopeds, starts with a long course in driving theory, basic maintenance, and traffic laws, capped by an exam. Then a one-day first-aid training and exam. The next step is driving practice with a certified instructor -- basic skills on a practice course, then real traffic, plus parking and reversing maneuvers -- 30 hours total, which must include one hour of highway and one hour of night driving, and has a minimum required distance travelled, ending with a one-hour exam with the instructor and an examiner employed by the state. Next you have to pass a medical exam (sight, hearing, balance), and THEN you can apply for a driving license.
All in all, it took me about six months and cost 150,000 HUF (~400 USD using today's conversion rate). I passed the driving exam on the second attempt -- the first failed because I didn't yield to an old beater with a busted indicator light.
Also, just for comparison, when I started driving, my insurance was around 170 USD a year and it's only gone down. $500 per month is fucking absurd.
We're no where near $170 a year but $500 is very high. I haven't had a ticket or accident in about 15 years, I think insurance companies can only go back 6 years, and I'm paying about $75 per month.
that has to be liability only
For someone who's over 25 with a clean driving record you can get good coverage for one vehicle for about $500/6 mo. My wife and I have no tickets and 1 accident (deer on a county highway on a blind curve, completely unavoidable, but totaled the car) and our rate hasn't changed in the 3 years since we last made any adjustments
yeah the cheapest I can find is 300 month. yes i have clean record.
I have full coverage with decently high coverage values (above minimum across the board, some substantially so)
I pay 60/mth, but I have a flawless driving record (driving since 04, not so much as a ticket) and live in a rural low cost state so that may factor in.
That's insanely cheap insurance, I pay that to insure a vehicle that is parked up and not driven.
Wow, 400€ is good, I (or rather, my family) paid about 4000€, and that was even with passing every exam the first time and generally being a good student. But I'm from Germany, not Hungary. Still, that can surely not account for such a vast difference, can it?
It can, easily. Hungary is cheap, both the wages and cost of living (although the ratio of the two is getting worse every day), compared to the rest of Europe and even many former Soviet republics. Foreign companies are flocking here for cheap, skilled labor. That 150,000 HUF was a significant part of the average gross monthly salary at the time.
Your info is outdated. A the cost starts at 300k, assuming they only need the minimum required driving hours to pass. Which is rarely the case.
Y’all have to hear to drive?
Not necessarily, but the state then requires proof that the reduced hearing (1) does not impact balance, and (2) can be compensated sufficiently by the driver (e.g. actively looking out for blinking blue lights because they cannot hear the horn of police/ambulance/fire brigade vehicles).
You don't?
We have to show that an imperfect hearing is not a hindrance, e.g. you won't hear a siren coming from the left when it's from the right.
Nah I’m hard of hearing and allowed to drive without hearing aids. All our traffic signals are predominantly visual and sirens are treated as a secondary component to the flashing lights. Hell, cops often only use the auditory components when the visual has failed, the visual never fails for me because I understand that I absolutely must rely on my eyes when driving.
So actually this is an area of professional interest to me and yeah, it’s often horrifying how easily many systems could incorporate visual sirening but choose not to. Fire alarms have flashing lights in every workplace in my country, but tornado sirens basically never do.
In as car centric of a country as America it would be a fairly extreme injustice to prohibit the deaf from driving if we’re able to effectively use visual signals within a reasonable margin of error (I’d say so long as our best drivers are better than the average hearing driver)
i mean, in fairness, how would you incorporate non auditory sirens into a tornado siren?
Flashing blue lights with a pattern mirroring the rhythm of the siren. So a slow undulation of luminosity of blue lights. If you see something like that out of nowhere you’re gonna know something is wrong, it isn’t a fire, and if you don’t recognize the pattern to do as others are.
As a bonus, put them under the fire lights with a blue backing and the word tornado in white.
ok and what do you do when you are not in range of a tornado siren to see it? Where i live we can hear them, but cannot see them. Only in particularly nearby circumstances would you see one.
In a building i suppose that would work though, usually there are plenty of other indications there. Like other people. Also i probably wouldn't explicitly label them as tornado, unless you're in the US. Extreme weather perhaps elsewhere.
Well considering I’m treating this as an and not an instead… so probably whatever was happening then? Combining sensory outputs in alarms and sirens saves lives because different senses have different merits and not everyone has every sense. There is no perfect warning except forewarning and when you hit the “evacuate or seek shelter” stage of an emergency any leg up is valuable
I went with tornado siren in a building as my frame of mental reference as in my part of the United States workplaces and other similar gathering places often have mandatory audio-visual fire alarms and mandatory audio tornado sirens. These are our two drills. These are our emergencies, and one leaves me absolutely fucked if I’m not wearing my hearing aids at the time.
nah i get it, i just don't think it would do much in many cases. Especially considering that everybody has a phone these days, with a third sensory addition. Those usually tend to also notify people about severe weather events as well.
Because you should never trust personal handheld devices to do the job of final warnings. My phone is on do not disturb at work. Many people do that. Sometimes people leave their phones in meetings. No phones are allowed on basically any factory floor unless it’s a work phone that like 1% of employees get.
So I’m an industrial engineer in addition to being deaf and one of my major professional focuses is actually human factors and as it pertains to the disabled it becomes extra important. So yeah this is basically all industry wide known to be better. So why is the fire flashy and the tornado not? Because both follow the legal minimum. I think workplace legal minimum should be raised so that any mandatory audio signal should contain a visual signal that shares the beat of the audio signal.
i mean, that's definitely fair, in the instance of something like factory, having some sort of global warning system would be advantageous. Does this stem from the recent tornado that hit a factory floor in indiana and killed like 100 people or something i think it was? If so that would make sense. There was definitely a significant issue in that scenario.
Outside of something like work or an institution though im not sure.
No I’ve actually pitched this idea to safety departments for years. Also I’m a Midwesterner, there’s always dead factory workers thanks to a tornado.
And like I do actually think that flashing lights in certain areas can be a good idea outside of work and institutions but it’s important to keep in mind how big of a net work and institutions are. It’s a third of your time for most of your life.
there are definitely instances outside where it would be productive, but then again, as midwesterners i swear going outside during a tornado warning or watch is like a genetic feature of our DNA or something.
My wife didn't even do drivers' ed, since she didn't get her license until after high school. She just had to pass a test and got her license that day. I did the whole drivers' ed thing, but it barely prepared me at all, and I ended up getting into 2 accidents while still in high school since I just didn't have the experience to deal with unusual situations, and I locked up when I happened to get into a couple dangerous situations. Luckily we're both experienced drivers by now 10+ years later, but yeah, those first few years are basically just learning how to drive by driving, being a danger to everyone.
curious what those two accidents were caused by.
Tailgaters. I was terrified that if I slowed down too quickly they'd smash into me, so one time I took a turn too fast and crashed into a car I couldn't see because of a hedge, and the other I didn't brake quickly enough to stop for a guy who suddenly realized he wanted to take a left turn right then. I eventually told myself that if tailgaters crash into me, that's their problem for being so close behind me, and I just need to focus on what I'm doing.
ah, yeah that sounds about right. Tailgaters are the worst shit dude.
NL here: driving education is something you have to do at driving schools, separate from regular schools. Getting your license requires a written exam (traffic rules, hazard recognition, stuff like that) and a practical exam, with both the practical and all lessons done in regular traffic. If you see a car with a blue square sign with a white L in it, that's a student driver.
It also costs a few thousand euros to go through the process. Though getting your license for cars does often get you a license for some other vehicles. Mine came with a moped license.
Sounds the same as the US, although zero lessons required and costs like $45 or something.
In the USA some states don't require licensure for mopeds and similar pedal operated vehicles.
Umm my insurance gives me a discount if I take a refresher course every two years or so. It wasn't really hard to do.
Brazil: You need to do psych and eyesight evaluations, 40 hours of classes, 20 hours of practical lessons ( you need separate practical lessons for cars, bikes, semis etc) and tests for both.
There was a kid at my high school who was famous for wrecking 7 cars his senior year. Parents just kept buying him new ones. Like, brand new. Off the lot. It was insane.
Don't even have to change the oil at that rate.
Sounds like a hell of a car salesman!
Kid’s parents probably bought that person their house.
As someone that ended up being the teacher for the majority of my friend group. If you are struggling with the teaching more than likely you're trying to give answers to their questions. Which is actually more unhelpful than helpful.
If they're asking you how to make a certain kind of turn, or how to know how close they are to something. Just giving them an answer isn't really useful because they don't know how to arrive at that answer, instead you need to help them ask the correct questions.
" you didn't quite make it in that parallel park, get out and take a look at where the car is. The back of the car is only just barely in the spot, so clearly you didn't end up deep enough in the spot. What do you think you need to do to change that"
And have them keep practicing until they start to figure it out, it will seem frustrating for them in the moment but it's genuinely more useful for them to try things on their own and attempt to reach the answer. than it is for them to be handed the answer, because then they understand not just the answer is, but the why of the answer. Why did I not make that turn, what does it feel like to not make the turn properly. Which is very important for being able to apply those same principles of vehicle control to other situations.
One of my favorite things to do with people is to set up some cones or a block of wood or whatever and just tell them to try and park as closely as possible to that object without touching it. I have them do that, get out, go look at how close they were to it, and then try again if they were nowhere near it until they can get it to Within less than a foot. Great way to help train sense of vehicle position.
Yes this. We teach kids, slow down in the rain, but give no guidelines on how to calculate how much they should slow down. Hell I have ran into very few adults that even understand the concept of out driving your headlights.
My parents took me to a parking lot after a fresh snow and told me to give it a try. Learning how the car handles is yuge.
Around here you be Lucky to get snow once every 4 years. So yeah good idea but not doable here.
It’s alright, he probably doesn’t need to know how to do a PIT maneuver or corner drifts :P