this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
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"No, not like that" -- NRA, ATF, and FBI
If only the Black Panthers and Native Americans had been armed...
Black Panthers in California were famously armed, until Ronald Reagan signed the NRA-supported "Mulford Act" which prohibited them from carrying loaded weapons.
There were similar racial motivation behind the wave of legal prohibitions on concealment in the late 19th century. The thinking was that only "criminals" needed to hide the fact that they were armed; "honest" and "law abiding" people had no need to hide their weapons from other "honest" and "law abiding" citizens or the police. The supporters of these laws didn't make it a secret that their intentions were to disarm former slaves, who would certainly draw unwanted attention from racists if they attempted to carry openly as the law allowed.
Before the emancipation proclamation, the only restrictions on guns were based on criminal conviction and race, specifically, the disarmament of "Negroes" and "Indians".
Because gun control is racist and classist.
There's "gun control" and then there's "gun control". Disarming people because you're afraid of them and disarming people that have a criminal record and mental health issues are not the same thing.
This is already the law.
As NAMI says:
That's a bit reductive, the NRA was a casual gun club when that happened. In response to them supporting the Mulford Act, the membership overthrew the leadership and turned it into the very political organization
The NRA post the 1977 Revolt at Cincinnati would never support the Mulford Act. It's the same as when modern Republicans claim to be the party of Lincoln
There was a presidential race three years after the "Revolt". The NRA chose to endorse a candidate in that race. Given what we discussed so far, (and knowing I involuntarily rolled my eyes so hard that I sprained them after reading your quoted claim above), can you tell me which presidential candidate the NRA endorsed in 1980?
That's right, sports fans, the Mulford Act supposedly had gun owners revolting against NRA leaders in '77, but by '80, they were endorsing the asshole who had signed it.
In 2012, there was exactly one presidential candidate in the race who had previously signed a gun ban. That candidate was the one who somehow "earned" NRA endorsement.
The NRA is a Republican front that occasionally masquerades as a gun rights organization, and its members are suffering from Battered Woman Syndrome, repeatedly going back to their abuser.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_at_Cincinnati
It's not a matter of opinion
Before 1977, the NRA supported Reagan's Mulford Act.
After 1977, the NRA supported Reagan's presidency.
You do understand that these aren't two people who both happened to be named Reagan, right? You are aware that both of these Reagans are actually the same person?
"Well, I know he fucked us over in 1967, but he can change! And if we don't support him now, he might not be there when we need him!"
It was despicable for the NRA to support him in 1980. It was despicable for the NRA to support Romney in 2012. The Revolt in '77 was the membership calling the police against an abusive husband, then refusing to press charges.
That it happened? No, not a matter of opinion.
But post-revolt NRA still backed the Governor who signed the Mullford Act when he ran for President just 3 years after the Revolt at Cincinnati. So clearly the supposed goals of post-revolt NRA weren't so important as to not support any and every Republican to follow.
What I've always thought would make an interesting alternative-history story would be if the Native Americans (or aboriginals in any place really) had something akin to a modern compound bow.
I've been shooting bows since I was six. I've also fired matchlock smoothbore guns. The matchlock is more powerful, but less accurate, slower to fire, noisy, it takes some setup before you can fire it the first time. Compound bows are crazy accurate in the right hands, and some can launch an arrow weighing 40-50 grams at 100 meters per second. Add a sharpened tip and it will penetrate a lot of armor, too.
Those things are crazy. I sometimes wonder why nobody has gone into a killing spree with one, but I suppose a brain that is able to train using such a thing successfully is not compatible with a brain that does killing sprees.
edit Well ok, https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/15/world/europe/norway-murder-bow-arrow-terrorism.html
Same! I actually volunteer with an organization called Operation Blazing Sword where we teach LGBTQ+ folks how to safely use firearms by taking them to the gun range and providing ammunition for practice.
Banning guns keeps the people who most need to protect themselves from being able to do so.
Gun control was started in the US as a racist measure to make it difficult for black Americans to protect themselves.
Hey! Nicely done I have my own private range and have been wanting to volunteer for blazing sword. Especially in this rural ass area I'm in.
Self defense with a firearm is exceedingly rare in the US. People who claim that guns are used for self-protection haven't done any research to back it up and don't realize that more guns in people's hands just leads to more danger for everyone.
https://vpc.org/revealing-the-impacts-of-gun-violence/self-defense-gun-use/
https://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable17.pdf
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/gun-ownership-not-effective-means-self-defense-gun-control-p-171
And often, firearms in the home cause more danger for domestic violence victims than protection because abusers escalate to homicide using the weapons available to them.
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M21-3762
Here's the thing though, I'm me. Statistics aren't convincing because I'm exceptional. Are most people less safe with guns around? Maybe, but most people are a lot shorter than I am too.
Sorry if you're being sarcastic, but why then do the workers with the guns have the least rights?
The bourgeoisie takes rights away from the proletariat. The bourgeoisie have outlived there usefulness and the proletariat should rise up against them.
Yeah but how come workers in Europe, who don't have guns, have 100X the rights of workers in the US, who do have guns?
Is it because people with guns are scared little pussies?
Because, to be honest, that's how it looks!
In the US the bourgeoisie is so powerful and have brain washed the people so much that the bourgeoisie feels comfortable letting the proletariat fuck around with guns. All the gun owners are so caught up with being scared of the people the bourgeoisie told them to be scared of that they don't realize that lgbtq+ community and other races are still more or less in the same bloat and that the bourgeoisie harms them all. One day the tools of the oppressors will be used by the oppressed to gain control.
I'll be honest mate, I'm old and I've been hearing this for forty years.
All that's happened is that public shootings have increased, dramatically
I unfortunately agree with this take. Blips of independence here and there get crushed by inexorable legal/monetary punishment of those who disagree with the system.
I wait quietly for the right opportunity, but am concerned I'll be waiting for a long time.
What rights do you think European workers have that American workers don't have?
Basic healthcare for one
That's a national issue, not a worker's rights issue, unless you're saying that employment is required for you to have healthcare. All citizens should have healthcare, regardless of their employment status.
It’s a worker’s rights issue when your healthcare is tied to your employment, as is the case for the majority of Americans.
And I'm saying it shouldn't be tied to your employment. Every citizen should have universal healthcare options, regardless of their employment status. Therefore it's a national issue, and not an worker's rights issue. If someone is disabled, or unemployed, or a small business owner, or whatever, they should still have healthcare. Life saving services should be completely unrelated to your work, or lack thereof.
Edit: and as far as I know, that's how it works in Europe, so it's not a right that European workers have, it's a right that all citizens have. Hopefully that clarifies why I said it's a national issue and not a worker's rights issue.
Vacation, illness/disability benefits that pay you for sick days regardless of your job, livable retirement benefits which don’t require investment…
I wasn't aware that Europe has such a thing. Which European countries? All of them? Certainly it's being paid for somehow. Americans get retirement in the form of social security. That does require that you pay into it, but I'm assuming the European version does as well, just as a general tax instead of a specific charge. Is the European version based on how much you made while working? What is the program called?
I said livable. Social security is not livable.
It’s paid for in Germany through a tax, but not personal investment in a retirement account (maybe my phrasing was unclear). The level of retirement pay is dependent on the time you worked and your pay, but it’s complicated. Someone who works full time for minimum wage will still get enough for healthful survival into old age. Each European country handles things differently.
Also, parental leave, I don’t know how I missed that one.
I was pretty shocked when I learned that Germany offers 6 months of paternity leave, fully paid. When my son was born I got half a Friday off and was back at work on Monday. That isn't most people's experience here though. Most decent jobs have similar benefits to all the ones you mentioned, but they're attached to the job, not workers rights. So those were some good points you made.
I’m an American immigrant in Germany, and in my work experience in the US, it’s hit or miss. I worked as a server, in a call center, and as an insurance adjuster. As an insurance adjuster, new fathers got two weeks, and new mothers got six months parental leave. As a server, I worked with a woman who came back the day after giving birth. I worked at three different restaurants, and not a one offered anything for parental leave outside of FMLA without pay (nor did the call center). New mothers have the option for disability, but that’s not full pay.
It’s definitely a good job vs. bad job thing, which is really fucked up, IMO, because the “bad jobs” are the ones where people actually need the money/time without paying for childcare. As an insurance adjuster, I could have relatively easily taken unpaid time off, as long as I had warning, because my pay was pretty high for my area (for heavily litigated, high value commercial liability claims, like asbestos exposures- an auto or homeowners insurance adjuster doesn’t make as much). As a server, missing one shift was difficult.
I’m currently working part time in a bakery in Germany, while getting my master’s degree. They just made me a wedding cake for free, which blew my mind. Most of the Germans I’ve told about it feel like it’s expected. That’s not a right that Europeans have, obviously, but workers here are generally valued more by their companies, even in bad jobs (which a part time student job almost always is in the US).
For another example, my boss changed the schedule last week, and I asked in our group chat if anyone could cover my new shift. My boss realized she hadn’t asked me first, and took me off the schedule for that shift. I’ve been called in for a shift in the US with two hours notice and told that if I couldn’t make it work, I would be fired. They can’t do that here because everyone has contracts. They could only fire me without three months notice if I committed a crime against them (because it’s a bakery, but a teacher convicted of, say, pedophilia which occurred outside of their work hours or a heavy equipment operator with a DUI could still be fired for those, because they’re relevant crimes to the job).
How much paid time off does your job give you?
What rights do you think we don't have in the USA? I can do whatever I want, and I do every day in the USA.
Get hurt and get treated at a hospital without paying.
I actually have done that in the USA. Emergency departments have to provide medical treatment to anyone who needs it regardless of their ability to pay.
Additionally, when I was in poverty I was able to get very discounted health services at the county health department. They provide healthcare with an income-based rate, so that poor people can afford it.
Your attempt has been debunked, good day.
Yup, I guess all those people with medical debt are just fuckin liars, and we actually do have free healthcare
The problem is that both are telling the truth. Some hospitals have discounts for low income people and others don't. Some medical emergencies are easy to write off while others aren't. If you don't have decent insurance in the US it becomes kind of a lottery system, which in the end makes it harder to change voters opinions.
Or if you do have decent insurance and also have cancer.
Medical needs extend far beyond the occasional emergency
It is "free" healthcare if you just don't pay! Tapping head.
Just waiting for the day when my Dr hands me a screen and tells me it's gonna ask me a question before looking away like a dip shit right before writing a prescription
How about getting good healthcare outside of emergencies or living in poverty?
I have always had access to good healthcare in the poorest part of the USA actually. My health needs have all been taken care of well, as have the health needs of every member of my family.
I don't understand why all you people think we don't have good healthcare in the USA. We literally have the top doctors in the world here, and the best medical technology that exists.
Kinda funny how some Americans always confuse "having" and "having access". But I guess you're the one person in the whole country who gets good healthcare, because pretty much everyone else tells a different story. Good for you I suppose.
Getting an abortion 🤷🏼♀️
Abortion is legal in the USA actually. It might require a drive to a neighboring state for some states' residents but it is still something that Americans have the right to do.
Although many Americans do not have the means to do so. Also some states are trying to (already have?) outlaw this.