this post was submitted on 20 Jun 2025
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Work Reform
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A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
Our Philosophies:
- All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
- Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
- Workers must join together and fight back for what is rightfully theirs.
- We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.
Our Goals
- Higher wages for underpaid workers.
- Better worker representation, including but not limited to unions.
- Better and fewer working hours.
- Stimulating a massive wave of worker organizing in the United States and beyond.
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I hate paid time off. Itβs one of the greatest crimes of modern life. I think Iβll campaign to have my union dismantled and my pay cut in half because the current model is clearly ripping off my employer.
Keep in mind that the guy complaining about PTO hasnβt worked a day in his life.
"Yeah, PTO is gay!" - Guy who works part-time at Dollar General.
FOR REAL THOUGH. Like every person I have ever heard that has complained about PTO, are people who are in positions that either don't accrue it, or accrue it so slowly that it's never usable, or make enough that they don't need to ever worry about being paid vs unpaid when they take holiday.
Disclaimer: USA perspective here, I know its less bullshit in many other parts of the world.
People who don't like PTO don't like it because:
It is implemented in a bullshit way that is often literally illegal...
And it is implemented by idiot/cheap managers who don't have enough actual staff hours to cover anyone being sick or taking PTO.
The bog standard norm for every kind of min wage tier job is that the manager will just unapprove your vacation that you accrued and scheduled weeks or months ago, and then oops, that also makes it so you haven't been accumulating more PTO because you hit your max and didn't use it in time.
Or just any manager that says you can only have a sick day, vacation, or any kind of emergency if you find a replacement for your shift.
That one is particularly amazing because... that is literally the manager's job, to do that, not yours.
But they just gaslight you into doing their job for them, for no extrs pay, of course.
But this kind of (again, often literally illegal) bullshit is so totally common and normalized amongst these shit ass jobs, that most workers don't even know how bullshit it is, and will rabidly attack and malign their coworkers instead of blaming their petty tyrant boss.
These people are basically, generally correct in identifying PTO as basically bullshit in these situations, but they're too overworked and uninformed to put together that... it could be organized/executed in a not bullshit way, and it's their boss's (or corporate's) fault that it isn't.
Shitass retail managers routinely pull this bullshit and enforce a culture of blame being on all your fellow workers, and will go out of their way to intentionally stoke interpersonal drama amongst coworkers... it is very, very rare to find a low level franchise manager or small business owner who does not do this.
Yeah, and unfortunately, like you said, that entire practice is fully illegal in the states. However, most employees are unwilling to report it and then file the evidence of why it was done. Because while there is no mandatory vacation time in the US, if you are provided It as a benefit, it must be something that you can use. And if they are regularly denying your PTO because they don't have the people to be able to cover it, then they are denying you a benefit which they are legally obligated to provide since they offered it as part of your benefits.
The amount of times that people just decide, oh well it's only PTO. It's no biggie. I don't want to rock the boat. It's insane. Like my mom lost over 600 hours of PTO because the business closed up and she didn't fight that they needed to pay it. She doesn't put two and two together that she's overall getting paid less because she has the benefit of having that PTO. So if they were to not offer the PTO, they are just paying less.
Your PTO, if offered, is part of your benefits package, meaning that it's part of your hourly wage calculation. So if you are given PTO and then not being allowed to use it, you are voluntarily being given a demotion.
... and this is why non corrupt unions need to exist.
A single person likely can't afford the legal costs or even just simply the time and headache of pursuing justice, and there is just a massive ass backward culture in the US of it being rude to discuss money and finances with basically anyone...
Get the masses fighting with each other, distrustful of each other, so they don't rally against the real, common enemy.
Oldest tactic in the book, divide and conquer, but you'd have to undo over a century of brainwashing that has now just become a cultural norm amongst morons who think one day they'll be able to be the asshole boss.
Or, even just that if they acquiesce to every absurd demand and insult, they'll be seen as a reliable employee. The reality is that none of that matters, we are all just homogenous human capital to them, especially so at such unspecialized, entry level retail jobs.
I work nights from home, so I hardly ever need to take PTO. Kinda nice at the end of the year though when I typically take November and December off to burn the PTO I canβt carry over into the new year (limited to 40 hours).
We used to do this at work. But it would turn out the company basically shut down after thanksgiving because so few people actually took vacation thru out the year.
Now we are on "permissive time off" which means there is no set amount you can take or really... have to take. So in general, people just work more and are pissed off about it
Shhh, donβt tell my company!
I actually have coworkers who were complaining about a day off, and saying "everybody's lazy, nobody wants to work anymore". Take the day off, and shut up!
How old are they? I feel like old people have nothing other than their jobs. They never had many hobbies and they never had to raise their kids.
I find its more often they need those hours to afford to live. Sometimes due to poor life choices like owning 5 dirtbikes that don't run and buying a 6th, but often its just due to how unfair the economy is to low income families.
You mean Americans don't get paid on holidays?
Thats very job dependent. Does the salesman in the UK make money if they dont make a sale? Does the construction worker make money if they didn't build anything? The salaried folks sure get paid in the holidays.
Sometimes they get paid more if they do come in, typically time and a half, so they feel like they are missing out if they don't. Sometimes is based on if they are full time or not. The same rhetoric is true for just regular weekends, my boss considers anyone who works less than 6 days a week unmotivated and lazy.
π so you are treated like the medieval serf
They're over 30, but so am I! π
Tell those coworkers to pick up the slack and work on their day-off. Take the off time for you and others so the aggravted workers feel good and pat their backs.
I'm a teacher, so any work they do doesn't help me, lol
Also we should bring back prima nocta for the holy job creators, and really just bring back slavery. I mean, people can't afford their own homes and such anyway, imagine how much more EFFECIENT it would be if we could cut through the red tape and get similar results.
-Republicans, unironically^
Slavery never went away, it's just slightly more regulated now.
We still have traditional slavery in prisons.
Yup, 13 amendment clearly allows it.