this post was submitted on 19 Sep 2023
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That only works with people arguing in good faith...
Fascists never do that.
Neither do red fascists (aka tankies).
A fascist is a fascist, and 99.9999% lie about if they are.
There's no need to differentiate
In a thread about nazis, you can always count on nazi sympathizers to be like "buh whubbut commies?!?!?"
Sounds like a skill issue.
Skill?? What is this "get on my level" shit? They are trying to kill us.
Even when the phrase is used in gaming, it’s an admission of defeat.
“The game is messed up, but I don’t want to sound wrong.”
There's a big overlap between gamers and fascists, due to Roger Stone and his WOW gold farming days.
It's actually pretty interesting read, but I couldn't find a good article on it now
The skill is debate and debunking. It should be fairly simple to show a serial lack of honesty and bullshit. If you can show that then it should be fairly simple to get people to stop listening and disconnect. Calling their words mean will convince no one. Do the work if you care so much.
It's not a debate skill issue, it's an education issue. What bad faith actors do when pretending to debate is just real-time trolling, they're not interested in debate, and debating lends legitimacy to their idiocy. "Don't feed the troll." People need to educated enough that they themselves walk away from disingenuous debates and stop listening.
You sure like sticking up for nazis.
I don't know what thread you've been reading but I'm sticking up for speech.
But you're talking like debate will make the bigots stop.
Why would I claim the bigots would stop. I only claim that they would fail. They have the right to continue. They have the right to be wrong.
Watch "thank you for smoking" or read literally anything on persuasive argument. Exposing and publicizing these viewpoints does not make them less popular. Allowing the "alt-right" to have "free exchange in the marketplace of ideas" has only led to there being more Nazis or Nazi adjacent people now than there was before we did that. The "alt-right" isn't even alt anymore, it's the mainstream right-wing position.
People that think "oh well that's only because we haven't had the right argument" are completely ignorant of history. We didn't defeat Hitler in "the marketplace of ideas", and you won't defeat Putin or Trump there either.
Have you considered that your Overton window has changed and everybody you think is Nazis and Nazi adjacent are just more right of your politics now than before? There hasn't been a major shift in the public but internet politics has shifted drastically.
Yeah on second thought you're right, Putin is actually a leftist, and it's totally not Nazi-ish to call for white nationalism, rally saying "Jews will not replace us", or try to overthrow the government because you don't like election results. /s
PS: If this argument is an example of how you're going to persuade Nazis or the general public in a debate with Nazis into not being Nazis, you're even more deluded than you know.
You cherry pick the most extreme examples and then call everybody a Nazi. I wasn't talking about Putin. I wasn't talking about Trump. I was talking about everyday people. The vast majority of people which means the one that decide what politics win. Remember in a democracy the one with the most votes wins. All the extreme viewpoints that you point to are a minority of a minority.
We aren't in a democracy.
Trump got more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016.
The "minority of a minority" that you speak of that hold these viewpoints are the Republican candidates for POTUS in 2024. All except maybe Chris Christie are still holding the torch for Trump.
Once you're under the boot of fascism, it won't matter that the majority of people started out disagreeing with the fascists. They divide and conquer and rule using terror and violence. The numbers are meaningless if the numbers take no action against the threat. They'll become spectators to mass violence or victims thereof.
Refer to my previous comment about your political window shifting.
Is Trump an extremist as you claimed just a post ago, or is it that it's a new extremist view of mine that attempting to overturn an election is fascist behavior?
First of all I didn't mention what he was at all. But the truth of the matter is that he's just a corrupt idiot. He bumbled his way into being a cult leader. He's not exactly making proactive decisions about what the cult does.
Aside from that the actual Q cultists are few and far between. They may be loud but they're small. The mainstream appeal of Trump was because everybody is tired of constant politics. Some people may like it but most people couldn't give two shits.
"Extreme examples" included Trump in your previous post.
That's the heart of the matter. He's a cult leader. Fascism is many things but central to fascist movements is a charismatic leader who alters the government around their cult of personality.
I thoroughly disagree that he doesn't make proactive decisions about what the cult does (whose idea was 1/6/21?).
Central to any movement anywhere is a charismatic leader. Not every political system is fucking fascism.
Yeah that's right, take a single adjective-noun pairing out of a sentence and pretend like that was the only thing in the sentence that mattered.
If this thread is any indication, you're not equipped to persuade anyone of anything much less persuading bigots to stop being bigots.
I'm just tired of people online calling everything fascism. You've taken a term that means something and made it mean nothing. Your definition of fascist is worthless. Stop using the word.
Lol
"It's not right to prevent people from saying whatever they want"
Moments later
"Stop using the word"
Shouldn't you be trying to win out in "the free marketplace of ideas" through persuasion instead of demanding people stop using words in ways you don't like? Or does that only apply to non-Nazis?
Did I use force to try and stop you or did I merely tell you your usage of the term is stupid and you should stop using it?
Nah, you just completely failed in a "free exchange of ideas" in the "marketplace of ideas" and resorted to forceful language instead of rational argument, which is utterly predictable because you're human and emotional like everyone else and it's just more proof of my point.
Whatever you want to believe.
At least, I think you're human like everyone else, but you could be NaziSimpGPT or something. Does that exist? Is that you?
Yup. Fascists don't have the skills to argue in good faith, and no one should listen to anything any of them have to say. I hope no one makes that mistake in this thread by listening to you.
"Never believe that [fascists] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
L + Ratio + get fucked fascist
You do understand the fascist has a definition right? It's not just an insult you throw at people with ideas you don't like.
By being a fascist apologizer, you’re choosing to side with the fascists.
This is your brain on authoritarianism.