I have a difficult time imagining malicious intent towards women by all these people. But given how common these stories are, there is something true about it. I just don't understand why.

Is it really an unconscious cultural thing? Or am I naive about how my fellow men (I guess maybe women too) feel towards women?

Something in me refuses to believe that these people knowingly and intentionally harm women. But it sure as hell looks intentional.

I am not defending them. I am expressing my struggle with the reality of this shit.

[–] crmsnbleyd@sopuli.xyz 2 points 6 minutes ago

I understand now how people can believe sexism is not an issue. Do you not have any people who are women close to you who have faced this professionally?

[–] SavageCreation@lemmy.world 3 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

I want to say that "unconscious cultural" doesn't exist, but I don't think I'm right on it. You can easily build consciousness on those topics and thus easily spot the cases with risk for any wrongdoing, and with how common and well-known they are, it just feels more like "willingly ignorant".

[–] Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 33 minutes ago)

Assuming that it is cultural, as it seems like your comment kinda assumes that. Like it seems you are saying, it was cultural but by now it is kinda intentional.

I would argue "willingly ignorant" is bad but also not making it less "unconscious cultural".

If they were willingly ignorant but also no cultural sexist, they wouldn't be an issue.

So well you have a point, but I would say that the unconscious cultural sexism could lead to willfully ignorant and you would kinda expect it.

I am not saying, you are fully wrong about the willingly ignorant part, I just don't think it would remove the cultural part.

Edit: ups edited the wrong comment. Sorry

[–] MisterFrog@lemmy.world 16 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Personal experience from when I was newly an adult, and chatting with a female university classmate and somehow got on the topic of games and I started explaining what Steam was, because I just subconsciously assumed, her being a woman, didn't know.

She politely pointed out I had mansplained to her.

I am very thankful to her for the experience as it's stuck with me and saved me from making a fool of myself on more than one occasion since.

I'm sure there are possibly small things like this, that you may have been been "guilty" of in the past.

These men, are engaging in similar behaviour cranked up to 1000.

However, it's even more malicious with them, because it's not like the last 30 years or so haven't had constant and increasing messaging (in the anglosphere, at least) about feminism and ways in which women have been treated unfairly.

So, it's not like they haven't had the opportunity to reflect, and change.

In summary, yeah, it is kind of baffling, but I will say society, while largely better than 30 years ago, still does have structural as well as conscious and unconcious bias towards women.

So I'm not surprised people like this exist.

[–] Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 3 hours ago

I hear you but what cranked it up to 1000?

Like I always saw my mom as a extremely competent person, as a child she was flawless. Nowadays, I see her flaws but I am flawed, so if my father and any person I ever met. I am impressed by my sister and how I can be like the person that she is in many ways.

I am talking about my direct family because these women had a lot of influence on me. So I wonder, what was their experience like to think so poorly of women? Not blaming the women in their social circle for being "bad", I just wonder wtf happened. Where does that belief come from? I don't think they all had great experiences with their male role models but horrible ones with their female role models. So what is it?

[–] CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 24 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

Selection bias, the people who don't discriminate aren't causing harm so you don't notice them but since they don't speak up they aren't helping either, so the jerks are still setting the tone. The solution is to not just do the right thing but actively call people out the jerks.

[–] Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 4 hours ago

I agree with you there. As someone in programming, I don't quite have the opportunity to fight these things when they happen because... There are no women. (obviously linked to this) but I can't call out behavior when it happens when I am not around. But I am happy to report that I have been vocal about my support of trans people and fought against transphobia, even at work. Obviously I am not happy it is needed.

So I am trying to see and support victims of discrimination.

[–] BellyPurpledGerbil@sh.itjust.works 8 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

You're simply not paying attention, because you don't have to. Not to be harsh. I went from male to female and how I'm treated is night and day. You've never tried to see how the other side lives, and when you heard stories that went against your experiences you dismissed them like your mind is trying to do right now.

Why does it happen? Nurture. History. Patriarchy. I could blame a lot of things. It's mostly that men never get treated the way they treat women.

[–] insaneinthemembrane@lemmy.world 7 points 5 hours ago

I think you're naive but in fairness, it is shocking and hard to believe.

[–] Ledericas@lemm.ee 3 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

I've heard in my university that a lab manger/ head was trying to always get with the female students, and would ignore male ones, or would not allow male to volunteer in his labs. It's very close to bordering SH. Most other labs with male PIs don't really care about either gender