this post was submitted on 24 Mar 2025
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[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The penalty for refusing the serve in the IDF is around 1-2 months of prison time. For the people who refuse to engage in ethnic cleansing, doing 30-60 days of prison time instead is far far more ethical

[–] dick_fineman@discuss.online -2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Lol, okay. Whatever you say. 10/7 happened and Israel had a right to defend itself. Netanyahu has DEFINITELY gone way too far at this point, but that's another discussion. The response to Arabs trying (once again) to ethnically cleanse Jews, whereby Gaza wasn't completely wiped off the map (which would have been VERY EASY), is proof that this wasn't an "ethnic cleansing". At least, it wasn't at the beginning. It sure does seem to be turning into one though, thanks largely to folks like you who enabled the rise of Trump by witholding your votes over "Genocide Joe". LOL

Whatever, I don't even care. The leopards have many faces to eat, and such little time.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Jesus, what a way to justify generations of Settler Colonialism, Apartheid, and Ethnic Cleansing. Well at least you think genocide is "too far," I'd fucking hope so.

Israel was founded on ethnic cleansing and has never stopped being an Apartheid. Zionism has always been a fascist ideology. Zionism is not Judaism. The leaders of other Arab or Muslim nations do not represent Palestine or Palestinians. There is no point to conflate either of those other than to justify Israel's Settler Colonialism. Land grabbing is antithetical to peace. Peace requires the end of the Apartheid. Unless the violence of supremacy and Settler-Colonialism ends, anti-colonialist violence is inevitable as people fight by any means possible for their survival, humanity, and human rights.

Quote

Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.

The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.

An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.

  • The Birth of Israel Myths and Realities - Simha Flapan

  • 10 myths of Israel by Ilan Pappe, summerized and full book

Ethnic Cleansing prior to 1948:

Planned occupation and the beginnings of systemic apartheid:

Peace Process and Solution

Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades.

Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

(Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ).

The settlements have created hundreds of isolated bantustans within the West Bank, preventing any two-state solution that may have been possible before the Israeli occupation in 1967

The settlements represent land-grabbing, and land-grabbing and peace-making don’t go together, it is one or the other. By its actions, if not always in its rhetoric, Israel has opted for land-grabbing and as we speak Israel is expanding settlements. So, Israel has been systematically destroying the basis for a viable Palestinian state and this is the declared objective of the Likud and Netanyahu who used to pretend to accept a two-state solution. In the lead up to the last election, he said there will be no Palestinian state on his watch. The expansion of settlements and the wall mean that there cannot be a viable Palestinian state with territorial contiguity. The most that the Palestinians can hope for is Bantustans, a series of enclaves surrounded by Israeli settlements and Israeli military bases.

How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

Historian Works on the History

[–] dick_fineman@discuss.online -2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Oh...no. I'm not doing this Gish Gallup bullshit.

Jews are from there. LONG history before the Arabs came in. Jews were persecuted in their own land and largely expelled. Then when they were persecuted elsewhere, en masse, Arabs got mad about all the Jews being their neighbors. Kinda like white Americans getting upset about Mexican folks (many with indigenous roots) being their neighbors...and started getting violent.

Shit was a mess since then. But on 10/7 Israel wasn't attacking Gaza...it was unprovoked, brutal, and fueled by genocidal intent. THAT started this shit.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Sources by multiple Israeli historians isn't "gish gallop," which you'd understand if you actually read the sources

I already added a quick summary of the myths you repeat, which are Israeli propaganda to justify ethnic cleansing, genocide, apartheid, and Colonialism.

Read the full context if you don't believe me. If you're so confident it shouldn't be hard for you to go through the books and try to prove yourself wrong

  • The Birth of Israel Myths and Realities - Simha Flapan

  • 10 myths of Israel by Ilan Pappe, summerized and full book