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It’s one thing to be the type of person that a racist piece of shit would endorse, and another to be the type of person that a person who hates racist pieces of shit would endorse.
Harris has her own share of problematic endorsements (Cheney, Gonzalez,...). Sure, they're not explicitly racist, 'just' war criminals, but she accepted them and is actually bragging about getting them.
Right. Because Harris needs the support to keep a criminally charged rapist from being a dictator for a day and calling the military against his own people. Having the support of a Republican in this environment is a pretty big deal. That is reaching FAR across the aisle in an almost unheard of show of support- and it sends a message of solidarity against a fascist.
Having a dirt bag irrelevant racist support a sketchy spoiler candidate?
Well, that’s just damn easy to “deny,” isn’t it? I mean… there’s no downside. And it sure looks good to the press to turn him down, doesn’t it? But then again, it doesn’t look good to have him up her ass to begin with…
Why can't she reach far to the left to get their support instead? If potential Jill Stein voters can lose her the election, she could see what those people care about and reach out to them?
They would've probably been fine with a stop on sending offensive weapons while keeping iron dome stocked or something like that.
Instead they're trying to find the mythical voter that gives a shit about what Dick Cheney thinks.
Because sadly, FAR more people seem to give a shit about what Cheney says than there are those that seem to give a shit about what Stein says. And not only that, but I’d wager that no matter what she does- a large percentage of the far left and socialists probably aren’t going to vote for Harris anyway. Even if Stein endorsed her.
(Remember a guy named Bernie back in 2016? Yeah. A lot of the “Bros” voted for Trump to spite the DNC)
Their minds are made up and are locked in every bit as tight as their folded arms are.
And I’d wager that she is ACUTELY aware of this. Between her, and all of her advisers- do you think there is no one that understands what she must do to get the votes she needs? Do you seriously think she hasn’t thought of courting the far left vote? She’s not an idiot.
She knows the far left exists.
And she knows many of them have a track record of not showing up regardless. Over 100,000,000 people didn’t vote in 2016. And we got trump- with warning signs of what he would do.
We don’t have warning signs now. We know EXACTLY what he will do, and the far left are all holding their vote hostage over shit many of them didn’t even care about a year ago.
So I’m sorry, but their demands are going to fall on willfully deaf ears. The far left vote is not something Harris is going to risk losing an election over. And historically, candidates that lean too far left…
Lose.
And now, at this point, I’m going to say that we’re far too late in the game for me to care about how you feel about this. This is what it is. This is where we are. You can help us keep America breathing by voting for the one person that has a chance to win, or you can pull the plug because of a single-issue that most of you don’t even really understand.
Either way. Someone is getting elected. Whether you like it or not- with or without your help.
So if you think you can win without trying to court their votes, why the vitriol?
Also: https://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/election_scorecard/2007/10/sour_grapes.html 20% of Clinton supporters ended up voting for McCain, the number for Sanders voters is 10%. Sanders did everything to make sure Clinton won, and he still got blamed for her terrible campaign losing.
It’s not vitriol from the democrats, It’s ridicule.
And about your link there,
And:
1 in 10 Bernie Bros voted for Trump.
The Bros helped trump
So just stop it already. It’s too late to bother with this. If you’re not voting, that’s your right. But please stand aside and stop interfering with those that are.
I remember when I seemed to be the only pro-third party person here. Man, things are changing fast!
We're growing in numbers brother! Shills unite!!!!
What a disgusting and willful disingenuous pile of horse shit.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=isRVf986QkA
I don't need to watch anything to know that what you're implying isn't reality
It's literally a video by a pro-Democrat channel of Harris promoting the endorsements.
You two want to imply she actually wants to be associated with that bastard, whereas clearly she's saying even that monster thinks Trump is worse. It's obvious that's what it means and you fucking know it. But for your agenda you're willing to pretend she is pRoUd of it. I won't get sucked into a thing with you so don't bother writing a bunch of crap arguing how fucking proud she is
Why do you think a literal Nazi would be honest in his public endorsements and not just doing it for tactical reasons?
Think about it. Trump supporters gonna Trump. This "endorsement" is aimed at harming Steins campaign with moderate and progressive voters, as is evident with the reaction here.
Now the question is, why he wants to do that, as it helps the Harris campaign. What does he think he gains from helping Harris?
Wow. You didn’t even read the article, did you?
Stein’s campaign seems to exists solely to harm the democratic nominee. This is pretty well known by many at this point. She doesn’t denounce Putin’s war crimes, uses Trumps lawyers….
And now, a long-time Trump supporter is backing her, and you’re suggesting that it’s for the strategic purpose of hurting Jill’s chances? She never had a chance to begin with! She only exists to take votes like yours away from the only person capable of beating Trump.
The Olympic-contending mental gymnast required to avoid the obvious here are impressive!
So you claim Steins goal is to siphon votes away from Harris in order to help Trump.
So the target audience of Stein under that premise are center/progressive voters. The target audience clearly is not Trump voters.
So even if Steins goal is solely to siphon votes from the Dems, any vote that goes to her is a "win" for her. And the opposite, any voter deciding to go back to Harris is a "loss" for her.
Him endorsing Stein is clearly aimed at achieving the latter. You said it yourself,
So her target audience are solely potential dem voters. And these are alienated by that endorsement, as is also very clear in this thread.
So there is two options:
A - the guy is a total moron
B - he is achieving exactly what he wants
A seems unlikely to me, as nazi leaders are despicable and evil, but smart and scheming.
Yes.
So you agree that the nazi guy is helping Harris by him alienating progressive voters from Stein.
Then you have to conclude that he is just very very dumb, or you have to agree with my statement, that he wants to harm Stein and help Harris. Which brings the important question, what does the nazi guy gain from helping Harris?
As the guy was leading a large organization, him being dumb is unlikely. Him being good at scheming and manipulating on the other hand is very much on brand.
Do not build a strawman here bud.
I never said any of those things. And therefore your conclusion is without an ounce of merit. What I am saying, is that he genuinely is in support of her because she aligns with his belief.
Shills of a feather…
So you think that he beliefs his target audience to be Democrat voters?
Or do you think he wants to siphon off votes of Trump?
Because that would also help Harris, but contradict your statement regarding Stein being there to damage Harris and help Trump.
Stop building strawmen.
So your argument is that any basic logic is a strawman, because you dont want to face the logical contradictions in your statements?
Lets go back to the start:
What do you think he wants to achieve?
Who do you think is his target audience for the endorsement?
What do you think are the goals of Steins campaign?
I’m not doing this thing with you where you put me on a defensive so as to not have to debate in good faith.
Everthing you say starts off with “so what you’re saying is…” or “so your argument is….”
…. and then entirely misrepresenting the statement made, which gives one to leave the wheelhouse of the discussion to defend themselves. It’s such a blatantly obvious tactic to use, I’m surprised it even still works.
Wel, either way- it’s not happening here. I said exactly what I said- and I was very clear about what I said. Misrepresenting my statements and those of others is by definition- arguing in bad faith and is against the rules of the community.
Keep pushing this and I will shut it down.
I said he wants to help Harris by harming Stein.
This is painstakenly obvios.
You said Steins goal is to take votes from Harris. So the target audience is potential Harris voters. So the target audience of the "endorsement" would be potential Harris voters. But the guy is a Nazi so he is alienating potential Harris voters from Stein, bringing them back to Harris.
If his target audience would be Trump voters he would also be helping Harris by moving Trump voters from Trump.
Either way Harris wins by this endorsement and this is his intended goal.
You just kept insulting me and making accusations instead of addressing the logical inconsistency in your contradicting claims
I have not insulted you once this entire conversation.
He isn’t intending to move Trump voters from Trump. Just like how the MAGA trolls here that pretend to be “leftists” can safely bag on Trump knowing no one here is voting for him anyway. They wouldn’t be doing anyone any favors by posting pro-Trump rhetoric in plain sight. They’d be laughed off the site.
But sewing dissent can be enough to sway a close election.
And there are a lot of right-of center voters that are on the fence that would back him over Trump- and therefore will support Shill- I mean..
Jill.
So he is taking votes away from Trump, helping Harris.
Ugh… man. How do you not understand this?
There are republicans that don’t want to vote for Trump. You know this right? Tell me you have been paying enough attention to at least know this much.
And many of them would and/or will vote for Harris over Trump.
With me so far? Awesome! Let’s continue!
So now instead of voting for Harris, this clown pops up at the 11rh hour with “Hey everyone! Why not vote for Stein with me! She’s the best!!”
Savvy?
If he wanted Trump to win, then why wouldnt he endorse Trump? This way he would bring normal Trump/Rep voters, to what, what they usually vote for.
Also it is not plausible that the followers of a literal Nazi leader from an organization that wants to exterminate all brown people would prefer voting for a mixed race women over voting for another Nazi.
Because Trump is pretty much capped out. He’s not gaining support. He’s gone WAY too far right. And therefore, he is losing a lot of right-of-center votes. Just like any democrat that leans too far left- becomes unelectable.
Look…
Dude has been a LONG time supporter of Trump. Why on earth would he switch allegiance at the eleventh hour when Trump is offering everthing he his little racist heart desires. He has claims to have absolutely NO commonality with Stein’s policy or agenda, or at least hasn’t over the decades
So… why then? Why with a month left to determine an election is he hitching his wagon to a third party?
Because it’s a ruse. He’s directing undecided disenfranchised right-of-center voters away from Harris.