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Young Progressive Activists Lay Out Demands For Biden (time.com)

submitted 8 months ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 28 points 8 months ago (1 children)

“This is a literal roadmap to how you build trust and energy among our generation in a critical election year,” said Michele Weindling, political director of the Sunrise Movement, which advocates for action on climate change. “Let us help you, dude.”

This is the problem with the DNC...

People are trying to tell them what works, but instead the DNC just keeps sticking their heads in the sand and saying we don't have a choice we have to vote Biden...

The people who put the time in for this are still willing to vote Biden.

They're just realistic enough to know it might not be enough and are practically begging Biden to do the bare minimum

[–] return2ozma@lemmy.world 20 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Exactly this and why I keep trying to ring the alarm here but get called a Russian bot for pointing out obvious shortcomings of the Biden campaign.

[–] qprimed@lemmy.ml 8 points 8 months ago

many of those that have been derisively commenting on and downvoting your posts have their heads so far up the ass of the political machine, I am not sure they are ever going to see daylight.

I don't always agree with your position, but your commentary is 100% valid. the DNC has no right to the votes in my household and for decades they have only gotten them because, in this rigged 2 party system, they are the least worst option in a general election. we are demanding the fucking bare minimum from the Democratic party and its still like pulling teeth from an alligator. national ranked choice voting cant some fast enough.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Reminds me of Salem witch trials, where medicine women were sentenced to death for not being able to cure sick people and when they did try to help and people didn't listen, they were blamed for their prediction coming true.

It's just Boomer logic, if you tell them what they don't want to hear or don't understand, they get belligerent.

It's not just that it's a normal part of aging, it's that they were exposed to lots of leaded car exhaust and that effects the same part of our brain. The part that handles critical thinking.

Without that ability people just get angry when challenged. It's not unique to trumpers, it's everyone in that age group and it will keep getting worse as they keep getting older.

They're not capable of running shit anymore, but they're also not capable of realizing that.

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

TIL, boomers were around for the Salem Witch Trials.

[+] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world -7 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Yeah good for you Young Progressive Activists for getting out there and engaging and all that. Good job.

Understand, though, that your demands will be weaponized by trumps shit handlers. And it’s not as effective as actually working within the party. But y’know.

It is not possible to change some things in time. Right, like, you’re not able to change the electoral college, or FPTP, or the de facto two-party system, or Biden as the top of the ticket in six months.

So when the olds are all “OMG don’t help trump win!!” It’s because we did this eight years ago and ended up in the most horrific turd-circus hell with a fucked up supreme court and every disastrous decision possible.

Biden’s not progressive enough, yeah, no shit. But actively damaging the prospects for a second Biden term is insane. Like, when people tell you not to point a loaded gun at yourself? Like that. Really bad.

So, take that to heart. There’s a time to change the party platform, and - more importantly - a better way. It’s not loud or exciting, no news articles will come out of it, but it is the actual thing you say you want.

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Let me be clear: if all you’re going to do is tell people to shut up, and tell people how to behave, you can shut up for all the “effectiveness” you’re having.

Climate change is the greatest existential threat to our time. Literally everything a rational person might be concerned with will be exacerbated by it.

This isn’t about party politics. It’s about kids and grandkids fucking surviving. Biden and most boomers don’t give a fuck because they won’t live long enough to see the effects.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Understand that I agree with the sentiment. Ok? I've been watching this burn down and railing about it for decades. No disagreement that we're killing the planet and we need drastic changes to oil and gas and meat and water protections and so on. So let's get that straight.

What I'm telling the "Young Progressive Activists" is that they're wasting their time and helping trump, which is the exact opposite of what they want.

So yeah, I'm telling them how they're behaving isn't going to work for them. How could anyone possibly know that? Because, again, as we've all said 100 times now - so go ahead and fucking listen to it this time - we see this Every. Time. We've seen it for decades. Talk to the Nader people. The Mondale people. Talk to the anti-Reagan anarchists. You think it's new? How could anyone possibly NOT know that this happens every time? Well, sometimes it's because they'd have been too young to know it.

It's not Democratic party politics? Well then that's exactly the point. You think Biden's not going far enough. We agree. we thought Obama didn't go far enough, we thought Clinton didn't go far enough, and that's all we've had. And those were huge wins. Every other administration has been pro-planetary-death in the extreme. They fucking went to war for oil for fuck's sake, and those are the people these "Young Progressive Activists" are helping.

So yeah, this behavior is predictable, and it will fail. You don't wanna know that? You wanna fuck up again and elect another republiQan, that's what you'll do then. What a great fucking idea.

Look, we were all stubborn idiots who held to the clear and obvious fact that we were right too. Somehow, despite the fact that we were clearly and obviously right this entire time (I mean, here we are, yeah?) we ended up with this shitshow of a political landscape.

So, what am I saying we shouldn't challenge the DNC? Oh hell no. "The Democratic firing squad is a circle" is a very old trope. But the DNC isn't the republiQan party - the DNC can be engaged with and changed by working with it. Go to meetings and make resolutions and so on. Why aren't "Young Progressive Activists" doing that? Why aren't they doing the thing that works?

Why. Aren't they doing. The thing that works.

Whatever reason you decide on isn't a good one. I know why I didn't go to meetings and run for things and change people's legislation that way. Because it was boring. Really - like, really boring. And it took time away from fun things. That's why. It's a terrible reason.

And that's why this is so annoying. This isn't going to change shit. Yay they're in the news for twenty seconds. And they're giving ammunition to trump. Hoo-rah. Best part yet, they're angry and won't listen. Fuck. Who isn't.

If you want a detailed map of political change that works outside one of the two parties, you're in for an even longer haul and a higher mountain than you can even imagine. That's what you're saying. So. Here - good luck. I hope you succeed.

[–] return2ozma@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Want my vote? Earn my vote. We're asking Biden to do the bare minimum. Don't blame the voters, blame the candidate whose job it is to earn those votes.

[–] knightly@pawb.social 2 points 8 months ago

I get shit for it every time I say this.

I don't vote "against" candidates, I vote "for" them. If a candidate wants my vote, they can act like it, otherwise I'll be content to let the rest of my state vote blue like always.

Yelling at me isn't going to change anything, but liberals keep acting like I live in a swing state and their futures depend on shaming me into supporting their half of our pro-genocide, one-party state.

Needless to say, I'm not having it.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 0 points 8 months ago

Fair enough. Your pure vote will never be sullied by the dark truths of party politics. Put it in a special glass case on the shelf. Think of it fondly as you enjoy the consequences.

[–] scroll_responsibly@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Genocide is bad.
Opposing genocide is always good; anyone who tries to prevent you from or talk you out of opposing genocide is tacitly or explicitly supporting genocide.
Criticizing our leaders for things that they do wrong (like supporting a genocide) is always good; anyone who says otherwise or tries to convince you to not criticize our leaders is anti-democratic.
Biden shouldn’t sacrifice our democracy to actively support a genocide.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 0 points 8 months ago

No disagreement with the sentiments. Absolutely agree.

But that's not what this is. This is an ephemeral news story. That's all. That's all it will ever be.

Lasting change doesn't come from waving signs and yelling in the street for an afternoon. Lasting change comes from engaging with the party by helping elect the people you want.

Bullet points of true facts are excellent things. And they will get killed in November without organization. You think this is organized? Well then, watch as it gets killed. Because it ain't. Organized. It's as organized as a meme. watch it scroll by. Whooosh there it goes. Oh and now here's a new republiQan administration to make everything 1000% worse. Huh that didn't work somehow. Boy it's a FUCKING MYSTERY.

[–] bartolomeo@suppo.fi -1 points 8 months ago

[+] Mammal@lemmy.world -7 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Awwww..... isn't that cute? They really believe they have any kind of leverage, and that they aren't going to vote Blue No Matter Who no matter what the Dems do.

It's like watching puppies just before getting being murdered by an IDF sniper.

[–] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

And yet...

“Youth are not thinking about this as Biden vs. Trump,” says Elise Joshi, the executive director of Gen-Z for Change. “They’re thinking about whether their issues are being met or dealt with." Joshi and her fellow organizers say that Biden and the Democrats must earn their support. “They need to be worried that this generation is not going to show up,” she says.

Did they forget what the Trump years were like? Or were they all too young to pay attention and their parents never said anything? Maybe they just don't have enough life experience to understand the importance relative to past elections. Not to mention that in the US we don't teach them history in any useful, interesting way, so most new voters have insufficient context for what's going on right now. Or maybe they're the type that would prefer not to pull the trolley lever.

[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Getting Trump would be worse than Biden so if they're logical they will Vote Blue No Matter Who... but fuck your position is pathetically apathetic. We can make a ruckus and demand change because we know that if Biden agrees to our demands it increases the chances he'll win the election.

This would normally be part of the primary process but we didn't get one of those.

[–] Mammal@lemmy.world -3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

What, exactly, will Trump do differently from Biden when it comes to the US-supported genocide? More weapons? More money? More political cover?

Consider: As long as Biden is president Dems aren't going to get behind stopping the genocide.

So no. When it comes to stopping Israel's genocide: Trump is an improvement because then at least maybe there will be some change from the Democrats.

I'm not apathetic - I'm realistically describing the situation.

[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Are you just trolling?

Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem. Trump tried to ban muslim immigrants full stop. Trump has cozied up to evangelicals and those fucks are scary. Trump thinks wind turbines are ugly and supports expanding fossil fuel dependency. Trump stuffed the Supreme Court to overturn Roe and he's supporting a national abortion ban.

Trump is worse.

[–] Mammal@lemmy.world -2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

If Biden disagreed with the decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem - why didn't he move it back to Tel Aviv?

Everything else you listed has no bearing on added support for Israel. Also: Israel oppresses Muslims harsher than anything Trump has proposed, and they actively court evangelicals in the US.

Has Biden done anything to discourage that?

Roe v Wade, Energy policy, SCOTUS ... it's irrelevant when compared to supporting genocide.

[+] alilbee@lemmy.world -11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Demands? What a collaborative and productive attitude that will surely build bridges and cooperation! You don't even have the leverage to make demands. This loaded gun is pointed at both of you, and one side taking that as an opportunity to make demands is just scummy, to be honest. The Biden administration has not been some kind of progressive revolution, but it would be foolish to suggest that he has not compromised with the left.

[–] Fern@lemmy.world -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Biden is funding and supporting a genocide. Pushing him is in fact productive.

[–] alilbee@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Push him, fine. Convince him. Advise him. Let's be clear though: progressives are in no position to make demands. We don't have the power or the leverage. It's foolish to make demands and set expectations for ourselves that are just entirely unrealistic. Biden's first term was positively impacted by progressives doing meaningful work and building bridges. Right now, we are a coalition. That means compromises and allyship should be our North star.

[–] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

What progressives need to do is come up with a long term strategy to get more political and cultural influence. Then maybe in a few decades we can finally achieve some of our goals.

[–] alilbee@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Exactly! I'm not anti-progressive, and consider myself one. It's just not pragmatic or honest with ourselves to act as if we have any leverage to make demands. As a coalition, democrats can be strong, but all factions involved will need to give and take. Progressives, look at what you have earned from this admin. Compare it to the Clinton era, or the Obama era. Work with your allies and let's use our collective power to achieve more on the things we agree on collectively, and negotiate on the things we don't.

[–] Krono@lemmy.today -2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

My position: Genocide is unacceptable.

DNC position: Unlimited free weapons to Israel, veto all the ceasefires, spread the worst of Israeli propaganda.

It seems negotiations have broken down :(

[–] alilbee@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Darn, guess the conservatives will get in and... propose turning Gaza into a parking lot for the new Jerusalem mega church. You want your ends achieved with Gaza? You want actual progress made and not just moral soap boxes to stand on? Then consider which avenue available to you actually gets closer to that end: negotiating with democrats to harshen Biden's stance on Israel (which I heartily endorse and is already happening) or to try to somehow work around/with the GOP? Or do you have some secret third avenue for magically handing progressives more political power than they've ever had to do something about it? That's reality. Feel free to sit it out for your ethics, but that's a choice too, with impacts for Gaza, the entire middle east, and the rest of the world.

[–] Krono@lemmy.today 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I'm doing the pragmatic thing: trying to pressure the Biden administration to change course on Gaza, because if he stays on his current course then a Trump victory is assured.

You are doing the desperate, ineffective thing: Voter shaming. Its counter-productive and you should stop, you are only hurting your cause.

And let's be real, this presidential election does not matter much to the Palestinians. If the current blockade stays in place there will be mass death from starvation. The next 6 months are critical for the survival of the Gazan people, it is cowardly and unethical to keep your mouth shut for political reasons.

[–] alilbee@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I'm not shaming you trying to get your vote. Your vote is yours to strategically use as you see fit. I'm just trying to make you see your best and most pragmatic option. If you're not interested, all good with me. Fact of the matter is, you can withhold your vote, vote for Biden, vote for Trump, or vote for another option. Only one of those options has the chance to make improvements for Gaza, assuming they're still standing by then, as you say. A lot of people make "sitting out" to not be a choice, but it is one, and if Trump wins, Gaza and the idea of a Palestinian state are toast for the rest of our lives. I'll be voting for Biden, and pressuring/negotiating for Gaza in the meantime. Nobody is asking you to sit down and shut up along the way.