Ask Lemmy

Hot take but I think tipping culture is one of the main reasons why Americans are suffering from such large class issues.

In Japan tipping is offensive because it puts the customer above the server when it's a fair exchange between the two parties. It makes sense imo. For people to respect each profession it has to be treated like an equal value exchange. The server that brings my food is not my temporary slave but we have a social contract that they'll be hosting me as the representative of the restaurant and "forced donations" completely ruins this exchange. It's incredibly toxic.

I went to subway for lunch, and the machine offered 18%, 20%, and 25%

I gave zero because he's doing his job; if I would have sat down and he served my my sandwich on a plate and refilled my drink, I'd have tipped

Everyone couldn’t agree to put a simple piece of fabric over their mouths in public to reduce the spread of a deadly virus. You’ll never convince everyone of anything. You’ll absolutely hurt workers. Period.

Tipping is of course a major issue not just in the US, but in many other countries as well. There are a lot of good books written over the years on the subject. One was written by a career waitress that is worth reading and how it leads to the acceptance of sexual abuse of the waitresses.

It's fun to think about changing it and everyone just stopping it. If this is an important issue to you try and change it. If no one fights for what is right and progress things will only get worse.

The employers have to make up the difference if tips don’t meet the rate for hours worked.

Is that true in all states? I thought I read recently that there were still holdouts.

Anyway, in the immediate term it would be terrible for most tipped staff who depend on that money for things like rent, food, gas, etc. For employers to pay more, they would likely need to raise prices; smaller restaurants in particular can operate on some pretty tight margins and I doubt the big guys will take less profit. Where that ultimately would go, I'm not sure.

I live in Japan now and we don't do tips here. Things are more expensive in menu price, but there's no magical 20% to pay after. We also have single-payer health insurance system. Businesses are required to do some health insurance stuff for full-time employees, but I don't know what what point/size. Even if the employee has to pay 100%, health insurance and pension are income-based. Rents are also generally less crazy. As with everywhere, food prices and inflation are issues here, but people are surviving. The bar down the street pays 1500/hour to start (minimum in Tokyo is a bit over 1000/hr) and that's increased for the late night portion leading to a higher amount of pay.

I was in the restaurant industry for several years and I've never met anyone who was paid that difference. Sleazy restaurants just won't pay it because most servers don't even know about it. Even in more reputable establishments, when managers see tips are low, they don't just stand around until they have to pay their servers more, they start slashing hours. A tipping strike would be distributive, but it would probably lead to less servers and worse service rather than end tipping.

The real issue is that propaganda has turned customers against servers, when the reality is that the restaurant is their enemy. The restaurant is paying a starvation wage and expecting you to directly subsidize their staffing costs. The National Restaurant Association spends millions every year fighting local legislation that would pay servers a living wage, while simultaneously forcing restaurant employees to pay for certifications they need to do their jobs. They're pocketing money from both customers and servers while watching them fight over tipping culture.

There are a lot of servers who prefer tips, especially younger people who are more likely to live with their parents and want quick cash. But most older restaurant employees would prefer stability to quick, inconsistent cash. At the end of my time in the service industry, I had moved over to event bartending, where I was rarely tipped but made $30 an hour. If their was a large migration from a tipped wage to a living wage, most servers would see the benefit and get on board.

The problem is, in the absence of any legislation, the only efforts to change tipping culture come from individual restaurants, and they always fail. Many restaurants try a living wage and go back to tipped wage because they just don't do as well. No matter how many times you explain that the server's wage is reflected in the price of the meal, people see a $22 item that usually costs $20 and think it's too expensive, even if they're losing money tipping $4 on $20.

So, a tipping strike would certainly be distributive, but it's more likely to hurt servers and customers than restaurants. Trying to get ballot initiatives to end the tipped minimum wage locally would be more effective, but be ready to fight the National Restaurant Association when they come to town (and believe me, they will).

Worse.

Without tips, the employer pays $7.50/hr. That's not enough to live on, especially since food service workers are almost universally working part time.

With tips, the employer pays $2.50/hr, but tips can make up the difference to be somewhat more reasonable.

To abolish tipping, we need to:

1. Abolish servers' wage ($2.50) / pay full minimum wage.
2. Double the minimum wage to $15/hr.

Tipping should be to reward personel for excelent service, not to enable companies to underpay their workers. Every worker should earn a living wage. When a company goes bust when they have to pay workers a living wage, they have no right to exsist and should go bust.

Tipping culture sucks, but good luck getting anyone who actively benefits from it to admit that. I'm looking at you, bartenders who spend ten seconds popping open my beer and expect fucking 25% of the fucking 8 dollars on top of taxes. Fuck you, you get ONE DOLLAR PER DRINK. I dont give a fuck if you think i'm a tightwad, fuck you shit's expensive, and you're lucky I'm even doing that. Go ahead, gimme that stinkeye see if I give a fuck.

Sure would make it simpler.

(This is simplified and generalized)

In the short term it would be worse for workers. Their employers are only required to make up the difference in pay to the non-tipped minimum wage (the normal minimum wage). With tips most servers are making above minimum wage (depending on the restaurant some servers are making quite a bit more than minimum wage; it can be a viable career for some). If a server had been making more than (non-tipped) minimum wage, and everyone stopped tipping, they would probably lose money since their employers are not required to make up the difference to what they had been earning with tips. Since the federal minimum wage is not a livable wage for most of the population, this would be very bad for the servers.

Longer-term it could make a difference, since those servers would likely start leaving their jobs for better paying jobs elsewhere and the restaurants would have to raise their base pay to compete or risk closing. To some extent we’re already seeing this in some industries. I’ve noticed most of the fast food restaurants (non-tipped) are advertising starting pay close to double the federal minimum wage. If the crisis became large enough Congress might be forced to finally raise the minimum wage.

Making employees rely on tips instead of paying them a fair wage is a bad system. I’m not sure how to end it in a way that doesn’t hurt the employees, though, short of congressional action.

The minimum wage for servers is around $2 an hour. If we stop tipping, our servers won't make enough money to survive. Restaurants claim that they can't afford to pay a living wage and offer prices people are willing to pay. Yay capitalism.

Sadly I think that might be the only way to make it stop. But it doesn't feel right. If a waiter/waitress is getting a zero dollar paycheck, that means they're making more than some minimum amount. If we stop tipping, they'll be paid that minimum amount. In our effort to get service jobs fairly paid, should we punish them by paying them less first?

Employers would ultimately see it as not their mess, not their problem. They already pay the minimum wage they legally can, if they wanred to pay their employees a living wage then they would already be doing so. They know that they will lose their current experienced servers, but they also know that there will always be desperate workers who have no choice but to accept the crumbs that are offered.