this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2023
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can anyone provide any sources to prove the bs we deal with (beehaw.org)
submitted 1 year ago by sleepybisexual@beehaw.org to c/lgbtq_plus@beehaw.org
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A friend of mine is arguing with me saying cishet men are oppressed and stuff. He thinks I'm insane for supporting the community I'm a part of

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[–] elfpie@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't know your friend, but he may feel like he's losing you as well. The world is burning and cishet men have trouble finding a place to be safe. We assume they don't need one, but most of the space they have is not good.

It's hard to do what I'm going to suggest when you are suffering as well, so put yourself first. Forget any groups, treat you two as your community and ask what exactly is bothering him. What happens that make him feel oppressed? How does you supporting another community harm him? If anything else, his pain is real, he can't put it into words and end up invalidated. That's actually a point you have in common, you may start there.

[–] thumbtack@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

agreed. imo cishet men (especially white men) tend to have their problems completely overlooked and invalidated by our community just because they are comparatively privileged, but that’s not right. they absolutely do have problems they have to deal with too, plenty of which are from the patriarchy, and i think that just talking to him about what he’s feeling is totally the best way to go about this.

[–] prole@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As a white cishet name male, no. We are not oppressed, and the people who insist on victimizing themselves in that way are completely full of shit. It's frankly insulting to actual oppressed groups.

I think this suggestion that my "problems," are in any way comparable to what LGBTQ+ people, or people of color, go through on a regular basis, is not just insulting, but potentially dangerous.

Cishet white men don't live a life without issues, that's not my claim. Literally no human does. But we're talking about two very different categories of issue, and what cishet men experience is just what people in general experience. It's the baseline.

The more acceptable it becomes to equate those things, the harder it becomes to actually do anything about the people experiencing actual oppression.

[–] thumbtack@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

well, i disagree. i’m not trying to claim cishet white men are oppressed, i never said that, and people who do are flat out wrong. i’m just saying that, because of their privilege (which i’m agreeing they obviously do have), their problems with things like mental health are heavily overlooked and dismissed. men suffer from expectations related to toxic masculinity and the patriarchy. sexual assault against men gets laughed at and joked about, it’s not acceptable for men to show emotions or cry, and in this society men need to be strong all the time. even small things like how men should pay for dinner on a date or hold the car door open are unfair expectations placed on men alone.

i am not trying to say that men have issues comparable to poc or lgbt folks. i’m just saying that what men go through are real problems that need to be validated, not brushed off. being brushed off is exactly what drives men to incel forums- no one else will sympathize with their struggles whatsoever. we need to be better at this.

[–] Pandoras_Can_Opener@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago

It's still unreasonable to expect the people who are actively oppressed to cater to him. If you have the energy sure. But otherwise that's another expression of privilege. If cishet men can only sympatise with each other through incel forums maybe they themselves need to be better.

[–] eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean they're also the group that features the ringleaders of the worst shit happening.

[–] AnarchoYeasty@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

And I'm sure that comforts them when the mental health crisis gripping them leads to another suicide or more alcoholism or drug abuse. I know when I'm struggling with the weight of everything in dealing with I tell myself "Well, at least white people control the economy and nation." And then all my problems go away and I continue happy knowing I can oppress minorities and women /s

[–] Arotrios@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

Ask him if anyone will kill him for being straight. Until he's under threat for his life and well-being for simply existing with certain biological characteristics, he's not being oppressed. He's being discriminated against.

There's a difference between being discrimination and true oppression. What your friend feels is discrimination in his exclusion from the LGBTQ+ community.

Discrimination makes people feel bad. Oppression kills people.

Your friend wants a space where he can commiserate about the discrimination he perceives as a straight cishet man. Your community wants a space where they can feel safe from oppression primarily instigated by straight cishet men.

Your friend's presence in that community, without additional context, is a threat. There are far too many stories of straight men gaybaiting the LGBTQ+ community to set them up to be robbed, assaulted, or murdered for anyone in the LGBTQ+ community to implicitly trust them.

The LGBTQ+ community isn't oppressing your friend, but they have good cause to be suspicious of and discriminate against him if they have no other information about him other than his demographic. He's expecting them to express patience for him whining about his life when people from his same demographic are actively trying to harm them.

If he wants sympathy from the LGBTQ+ community, then become an ally and actively work with them to protect those who are being oppressed. This is how you earn your place in a community and their sympathy.

[–] crowsby@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As a starter, you could ask him:

  • How many countries currently have laws making it illegal to be cishet, sometimes punishable by death.
  • In the US, how many states have passed laws making cishet relationships illegal. What year were they repealed?
  • How long did it take for an American president to openly support cishet marriage?

...but like other folks have talked about, it's difficult to use logic to get someone out of a position that they did not logic themselves into. You're arguing with feelings, and so long as he feels oppressed, that's going to be the truth of his world.

[–] sleepybisexual@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I tried those and he just started whining

[–] Gaywallet@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

Honestly, the best bet is probably to cut him out of your life. If he values your friendship he'll try to make amends. If not, your life will likely improve without a toxic influence.

If you don't want to do this, because you value his friendship or want to teach him, that makes you a wonderful person and I wish you the best of luck. There's a lot of resources out there on healthy menslib places (such as reddit /r/menslib)

[–] can@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

About what? Cishet man here, yeah I have problems, but none of them are the result of LGBT? What is even his argument?

[–] HunterHog@pathfinder.social 2 points 1 year ago

That doesn’t sound like much of a friend, chief

[–] idealium@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

Echoing the sentiments of everyone else in this thread. I wish you good fortune in discovering an actual friend to replace this loser.