this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2024

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384

‘Seismic shift’: driving unaffordable for many in US amid push toward SUVs (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 9 months ago by dantheclamman@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

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[–] ExLisper@linux.community 147 points 9 months ago (6 children)

If anyone would care to read the article it's more about companies making more high end cars and running low stocks than making cars bigger. They reduced stock during the pandemic and discovered that they can make more money selling fewer cars with maxed out specs than a lot of base models. They simply don't have base models on stock now and people still have to buy cars so profits are soaring. Basically they made everyone depend on cars by killing public transport and are now milking it hard. Because what are you going to do? Work from home?

[–] jonne@infosec.pub 45 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Good thing China isn't ready to flood the market with millions of cheap electric cars. This short term profit is going to end up biting them in the ass real quick. Although I guess they know they'll just get bailed out, so there's no reason to innovate.

[–] JeffKerman1999@sopuli.xyz 19 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Not to worry: protectionism will take take of the competition. Just like they did with the Japanese manufacturers...

[–] Dkarma@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago

Yeah no one drives a Honda or Toyota 🙄🤣

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[–] frezik@midwest.social 5 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Most of those Chinese cars wouldn't meet US safety regs. Getting them up to that level would put them closer to cost parity.

[–] jonne@infosec.pub 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

They sell them in the EU, which has stricter safety regulations. If they set out to do it, they'll flood the market and get the traditional manufacturers in trouble.

[–] frezik@midwest.social 4 points 9 months ago

EU allows all sorts of stuff that isn't allowed in the US. Believe it or not, US safety regs are generally higher than the EU (for passengers, anyway). The Ariel Atom, for example, needs some hoop jumping to make it US street legal, but can be driven without issue much of the EU.

[–] mightyfoolish@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Wow, I didn't realize there were Chinese cars on the European market. Are the cars being received well? Are there major issues with them and if there are major issues, does price still make them worth it?

[–] ChrisLicht@lemm.ee 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

They’re surprisingly good, particularly BYD cars, in my experience.

Americans’ vehicles tend to be huge, wildly inefficient for their daily usage, and they throw off externalities like pedestrian and cyclist risks, road damage, and support for countries who use our gas spending to make the world less liberal.

VW, Honda, Toyota, and Datsun capitalized on American vehicle bloat to build massive, multinational companies with products in every segment. The Chinese are going to ruin our domestic manufacturers, once they decide to build bridgehead plants here.

Today, I’m driving an Acura that is made in Marysville, Ohio. Not assembled; it is substantively made here in the States. And, the chain reaction that led to Honda, a Japanese company, exporting profits made from American productivity in 2024, started with the Big Three making massively bloated, inefficient, expensive, poorly designed cars, leaving a gap in the market that foreign companies exploited with right-sized, efficient, affordable, reliable vehicles, starting in the ‘60s and exploding with the ‘73 oil crisis.

I don’t have time to find a link, but there have been studies that demonstrate that the exact choices being made by American manufacturers today—to not fully serve the bottom of the market—sow the seeds of their own future declines in the middle and upper markets.

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[–] mightyfoolish@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

My biggest worry is that once/if the Chinese make cars "good enough for the US market", all car companies lobby for worse consumer protections since those regulations no longer keep new competitors out of the market.

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[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

Not really, the big problem is tariffs. You have to do at least final assembly in the US to avoid that.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 31 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Oh hey almost exactly like the housing issue... Greedy fucking companies realized they made more making McMansions than starter houses so no one makes reasonable houses anymore and we're all stuck trying to buy 4+ bedroom overpriced shit...

There's no way this could be bad for society at large especially when driving is pretty much mandatory outside of cities. Nah, it couldn't be bad because it's good for corporations. Not that anyone cares. Externalities is just a fancy word...

Remember: can't afford life? Move to a low cost of living area and drive 2 hours to work! ....wait...

[–] GhostFence@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

That's going to break down when Starbucks in San Francisco/etc. can't find workers because the cost to drive 20 miles to work is greater than what they're being paid. That day when low-paying big city jobs disappear because no one can afford to get there and work there is coming very fast.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

It's already here. They aggressively recruited among the higher middle class urban kids and poverty kids who can use mass transit. And now they have a very stubborn union movement.

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[–] ExLisper@linux.community 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Remember: can’t afford life? Move to a low cost of living area and drive 2 hours to work! …wait…

The article even mentions some research that in the suburbs people with cars tend to get better jobs.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 3 points 9 months ago

Every "decent" job I've had I had to travel 30+ min by car, I would never have had the same opportunities without a car.

[–] GhostFence@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago (1 children)

That's a lot of words to say "Cartel". Car...tel... get it?

I'm here all day, folks! 👍

Here’s a hint: the automakers are doing great. By essentially coordinating an industry-wide production cut, the pandemic gave manufacturers power to demand mind-boggling prices for fewer cars, leading to record profits. As consumers adjusted their expectations, executives saw an opportunity to establish a lucrative new normal. Low inventory is an “opportunity to drive strong margins”, GM’s CEO, Mary Barra, told shareholders in 2022. Ford’s CEO, Jim Farley, went even further, declaring: “I want to make it extremely clear to everyone: we are going to run our business with a lower day supply than we have had in the recent past because that’s good for our company.”

Also see: collusion... market manipulation... fauxflation.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yet another point in the argument for a government corporation that makes basic shit and provides basic services across the board.

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[–] maness300@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I've noticed this trend in other businesses, as well.

They've realized it's more profitable to screw over fewer people harder than it is to try to appease more customers with better deals. The most notable example of this to me would be the fast food industry.

It's a win-win, because they get to expend fewer resources due to fewer customers and they make more money with each transaction.

Fuck greed and anyone who supports it.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 4 points 9 months ago

Remember: can't afford life? Move to a low cost of living area and drive 2 hours to work! ....wait...

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

To extend and clarify a bit, if you want a base model they don't have, you have to pay a delivery fee. At which point you might as well buy the higher trim on the lot.

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[–] brognak@lemm.ee 141 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Repeal CAFE standards, or just delete the entire catagory of "light truck". If it doesn't have a bed, its not a fucking truck. This entire fucked situation is literally just automakers not wanting to be bothered to make fuel efficient cars when you can call everything a fucking truck and be mostly exempt from having to comply with the far stricter regulations around smaller passenger vehicles MPG standards.

And the automakers give zero shits since they make so much more selling these larger utterly pointless vehicles rather than smaller, more economical ones.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

They did change up the rules for trucks in 2011 following the PT cruiser getting classified as a truck, but they made it worse.

Now CAFE standards are based on vehicle footprint, which encourages giant vehicles. It also killed the small truck category of vehicles, which is why a Ranger today is the size of an F-150 from before, and an F-150 is the size of a small moon.

On the plus size, it's also why the base-model engine on the Maverick is the hybrid with the traditional engine being the "upgrade."

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[–] PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com 117 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Maybe it's my interest in economics, but American life is so expensive in part because Americans are willing to spend a shit ton of money because they think they're supposed to. It's like we're all enamored with the idea that bigger and more is better just because someone said so. And then we complain about things being unaffordable like corporations aren't trying to fleece us for all we're worth.

[–] aseriesoftubes@lemmy.world 90 points 9 months ago (6 children)

I’ve heard it said that Americans purchase based on the maximal use case as opposed to the typical use case. As an American, that description makes so much sense. As an example, I live in an area where there are a lot of hills and it snows rarely, but just about everyone who can afford a 4WD SUV has one. Heaven forbid they can’t drive around on those 1-2 days a year that it snows! Meanwhile, they get shitty gas mileage driving to work the other 300-odd days of the year.

[–] PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com 45 points 9 months ago (3 children)

The maximal use case! That's a good way of thinking about it!

I'm struggling with my SO to buy a reasonable house in a high cost of living area. They want a massive 2000 Sq ft monstrosity because we plan to have a kid soon, and I'm thinking 1500 is more than enough. They're reasoning it's we need space for each other and entertaining. My reasoning is I want to eat out at the nearby fantastic restaurants nearby more often and buy cheese and wine and stuff.

[–] zeekaran@sopuli.xyz 31 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The more walkable the location of the house, the less space you need because that space is outside your house.

[–] azimir@lemmy.ml 19 points 9 months ago (5 children)

US cities are rapidly running out of 3rd places. There's almost no neighborhood commercial centers with a cafe and a pub/bar that you can visit for extended periods of time.

The net result is that the home and the workplace are the primary locations we can spend time in.

[–] GhostFence@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

Running out of 3rd spaces? LOL you only see those in museums now. See the smilodon exhibit next to the woolly mammoth exhibit and next to that is the American 3rd Space exhibit!

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[–] RBWells@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago

Ok. We raised 4 kids in an 1800 sq foot house with one bathroom. I do not recommend the one bathroom, but the space was more than adequate.

Having said that, it does make a difference, we have the same size house now and only 2 kids left at home, but this house has a bigger main kitchen/dining area, smaller bedrooms, a separate living room for the kids, an enormous back porch/deck adding to the useable space and entertaining space is really helpful more than I had imagined.

1500 arranged right with small bedrooms and enough common area, and at least 2 bathrooms sure. It's not a small house, that's a medium size house. With an enormous porch? Hell yeah. We used to live in one of those with two other couples, it was fine. But I do think you are undercounting the value of common space.

[–] IMALlama@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago

We have two kids in a 3 bed/2 bath 1350 sq ft home. We do have a full basement, but the kids aren't really allowed down there (power tools, toy stash, etc). I guess I do hang out there some nights, but that's only because my gaming computer moved downstairs years ago when our oldest started to be able to reach the keyboard and pull key caps off it.

In our experience, you're probably not going to do a lot of entertaining while you have young kids. While one of your kids is under 3-4, and sometimes older, they're going to need naps. They're also going to have early bedtimes. Naps are mostly behind us, and we do have afternoon play dates, but the kids don't really care what space they're in as long as they're engaged and have things to do. Having an adult gathering is... very rare. We have a nice sized yard, so we tend to have gatherings outside.

I don't think we need extra bedrooms or bigger bedrooms/bathrooms. An office might be nice, but working from the basement works just as well. A toy room could be nice, but to me it would be wasted space as the kids get older and have fewer, but larger/more engaging, toys. At least around here, the extra room comes with extra walls that result in a space that's not often used (think a formal dining room).

There's also the financial side of things. We could afford a larger house, but would rather be putting any extra into 529s, our own 401ks, etc. Kid related expenses really add up before you start also thinking about a bigger mortgage payment.

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[–] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 37 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I’m always blown away seeing these blue collar guys driving around these $50-80k trucks that probably get 8 mpg. How do they afford this?

[–] JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 28 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Debt to their eyeballs

[–] TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id 6 points 9 months ago

Also some of them are paid very well. Any of your unionized specialty trades can easily make $150k+ a year, especially if they're willing to travel or work a lot of OT. If you're single or married with no kids, you can pretty easily afford a big fancy truck like that.

If you're willing to travel that can be more than $50k a year in per diem pay, so in two years you can easily pay off a new trailer to live in and a nice truck to haul it with. I personally know people who have done exactly this. The catch is that you need to get into a good union and do your apprenticeship and generally have your shit together. It always surprises me that more people don't know this.

[–] ExLisper@linux.community 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Credit?

[–] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Loan on a $50k vehicle is $1000-$1500/month depending on loan term. It’s likely $80 minimum every time you refuel too.

[–] ExLisper@linux.community 7 points 9 months ago

That's why repossessions are a booming business.

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[–] iamjackflack@lemm.ee 25 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Stop buying SUVs and expensive cars!

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[–] BenM2023@lemmy.world 14 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Can't have the poors driving - they should be working! cf. Drive to eliminate internal combustion driven vehicles and replace with EVs as well.

[–] BlueLineBae@midwest.social 18 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Don't worry! Well make them all return to the office so that 90% of them are forced to commute via car. That means they'll have to buy one even if they can't afford it! It's genius and there's definitely no other way this can be done because otherwise they will miss out on all that important in-office interaction bullshit!

[–] GluWu@lemm.ee 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

It blows my mind how many people are paying nearly my rent on their car payment. We've already normalized having 48+ month financing on cars people would never even think about buying because it's 2 years salary instead of a 2 months. But you can pay $800 every month, right?

Better not lose the job you need the car for that you need to pay for the car payment because miss a few and all those payments go bye-bye, it's repo time! Then good luck getting a job, if you can't pay your car payment, you won't even be able to afford a clapped out 94 civic with 200k for $5k. Maybe if you just move out for a few months you can save up enough to get that car. Just a few months on friends couches or in motels, then it will be okay. Then you'll get back on your feet.

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[–] MonsiuerPatEBrown@reddthat.com 14 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Seems like this would be a good time for foreign car companies to take advantage of the US automakers entrenched positions again like Japan did in the 1970s.

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[–] Mango@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago (6 children)

Well, I gotta save for a Chrysler 300 because that's the only company who isn't lobbying against right to repair.

[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 17 points 9 months ago

Chrysler is probably only doing it because they already design their vehicles to be a huge pain in the ass to repair. I remember my buddy having to remove his wheel to replace his battery in his intrepid because the only access was via the wheel well.

I've also heard a story about Toyota where they would buy competitor vehicles to disassemble them and see what they were up to and they stopped bothering to even look at Chrysler vehicles because they didn't have anything useful to learn from their designs.

[–] Cynnith@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago

Chrysler dealership wants $450 to diagnose an issue on my 200. Local shop directed me to them because it was an electronics issue that they would need to repair. Not sure I would trust Chrysler either.

[–] evranch@lemmy.ca 10 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I just bought an old diesel Mercedes that I'm hoping will last me until the next era of car technology. I can't believe how easy it is to work on, almost as if it was designed to be maintained instead of to discourage the owner from doing so.

Currently it's had only 200k of its reputed million miles used up, so it has a long way to go yet!

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[–] Habahnow@sh.itjust.works 11 points 9 months ago

I like how the article mentions: The preferred solution of many planners – replace car trips with transit – faces difficult odds in this country. Yet the last paragraph discusses s proposed solution being provide money to help lower income people buy and maintain cars.

[–] BigMacHole@lemm.ee 10 points 9 months ago

It's a good thing we give them so much TAXPAYER money! I'd MUCH rather give THESE men my Money then STARVING CHILDREN!

[–] BombOmOm@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago

the average used car lists at more than $26,000

Craig's list is your friend. Giant pile of cars there for four digits.

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