this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2023
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The Greenbelt report proves it: The Ford government is corrupt (www.tvo.org)
submitted 1 year ago by MarkG_108@lemmy.ca to c/ontario@lemmy.ca
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OPINION: After the auditor general’s explosive Greenbelt report, resignations and further investigations are the only way to restore some sense of integrity

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[–] vaccinationviablowdart@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

investigating doesn't restore anything. You know what would restore integrity? consequences.

get a forensic accountant to dive into the finances of every one of these ghouls. As well as Including dependents, spouses, business relationships at the slightest hint of suspicion that they have been used as cover up. Innumerate each and every piece of evidence of infraction from bylaw infraction to breach of trust to being anything less that scrupulous paying taxes. Each instance its own charge and the details put into the public record. Punitive damages far larger than the value of their thefts. And they all have restrictions on engaging with politics of business for the next 20 years. Heavy fines for the smallest repeat infractions.

[–] EhForumUser@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You know what would restore integrity? consequences.

Well, we're the top boss. We hired the MPPs, who hired the Premier. Either we have to get on our MPP employees to tar and feather him, or we have to do it ourselves. The underlings beneath won't. That is not how power dynamics work. It must come from the top down.

[–] djvinniev77@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Now that hopefully everyone else is seeing what most of us know already, what can we do about it ourselves?

[–] countflacula@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Inb4 "vooooooooote"

[–] idunnololz@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

To be fair the last provincial voter turnout was abysmal.

[–] GrindingGears@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Natural progression of voter apathy. The slate of candidates in Ontario, is far from quality. The Ontario Liberals are just as corrupt, and we aren't far enough away from the NDP experimentation of the 90s, that they won't have a hope in hell for some time yet.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

thanks for the standard ignorant Don Cherry take

[–] GrindingGears@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago

Do you have an alternative take? I'd love to hear it..

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Look at it this way...

Ford claims that this will provide 50,000 homes. His developer friends will make $8 billion in profit.

Easy math...

$8,000,000,000 / 50,000 homes = $160,000/home

Imagine how much more good those homes could do if they cost $160,000 less each.

Sure, the developers deserve to make a profit but maybe, just maybe, if other developers had had a chance to get in there the people of Ontario might have gotten better value for their land.

[–] EhForumUser@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

His developer friends will make $8 billion in profit.

$8 billion is the estimated increase in property values based on MPAC figures, which are notoriously low at the best of times, and now not even connected with reality as they were ordered to not reassess properties when COVID started. They are currently fixed to the assessment done in 2016.

"Citing the Municipal Property Assessment Corporation, which is responsible for calculating property values in Ontario, Lysyk estimates the landowners of the 15 sites that were removed could see their value increase by $8.3 billion." – https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-auditor-general-greenbelt-report-1.6930390

You'd have to dig into the land registry to know how much profit potential is actually there on the sale of the land. It records the initial purchase price.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Government procurement is supposed to be open and transparent so that the people get the best value. 15 of 16 being rich developer friends of the premier does not suggest that the people are getting the best value.

[–] EhForumUser@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The land registry contains the actual amount paid. You don’t have to guess based on MPAC figures from seven years ago. It is for tax purposes, not profitability calculations.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If it's all above board why did 15 of 16 actions benefit his buddies?

Trudeau took a vacation with an old family friend and "conservatives" lost their minds. They're still flogging that dead horse to this day. Why are you out here apologizing for this clear and will documented corruption by a "Conservative" government?

[–] EhForumUser@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is there a reason you believe MPAC numbers are more accurate than what is contained in the land registry?

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sorry...you were going to tell my why you think this was completely above board when 15 of 16 changed benefited Doug Ford's rich developer buddies.

[–] EhForumUser@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

No, I wasn't. I have no reason for a new topic, especially one so boring. What is one going to even say other than repeat the same speculation made a million times before? I know nothing more than you do with respect to your question and it is likely that I know a lot less. I defer to your expertise.

Our discussion about understanding why you decided to use MPAC prices in your comment was just fine, and one not needing someone to guess arbitrarily for no reason. Using MPAC figures may have been a reasonable choice, but we are looking for you to explain your reason for choosing this particular methodology amid its obvious pitfalls.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, we weren't. We were talking about the abject corruption of the Ford Government. You tried to turn it into a pedantic argument about the source of my numbers.

So, about that abject corruption. Why do you think that 15 of 16 of the changes benefited Doug Ford's rich developer friends, you know the ones, they attended his daughters wedding and got fat, government patronage appointments?

[–] EhForumUser@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

We were talking about the abject corruption of the Ford Government.

Okay, and from that what have you learned that you didn't already know?

You tried to turn it into a pedantic argument about the source of my numbers.

Well, you were asked why you felt MPAC numbers were better than land registry numbers. I assume you are not a chicken when your head cut off and therefore are putting thought into your actions, so understanding why you made that decision provides us with useful information. If you want to talk about what is going on, we need a shared understanding. I don't want to flail around like a chicken with my head cut off either. That would be stupid and pointless.

Why do you think that 15 of 16 of the changes benefited Doug Ford’s rich developer friends, you know the ones, they attended his daughters wedding and got fat, government patronage appointments?

Again, I defer to your expertise. I do not yet have the knowledge to speak intelligently to the matter. Hopefully I can get there someday, but I can't even get an answer to some of the cursory questions without some lame attempt to change the subject, so it is not looking good.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You don't need to defer to my expertise. It's all in the report. The Ford government is abjectly corrupt. Ford is abjectly corrupt. It doesn't really matter what numbers you use the end result is still the same. If rich, connected developers are making billions of dollars of profit that is billions of dollars that are not benefiting the people of Ontario. Had this been done fairly and transparently with other developers involved the people might (probably would have gotten) a much better benefit. This wasn't don't to improve the housing situation. Improving the housing situation was the cover for corruptly giving billions of dollars of benefit to rich, connected, friends of Doug Ford.

[–] EhForumUser@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The Ford government is abjectly corrupt. Ford is abjectly corrupt.

And 1+1=2. I'm glad we both got our chance to randomly state the obvious for no reason. Now, let's return to the discussion:

  1. From that [with regards to the discussion you are having] what have you learned that you didn’t already know?
  2. Why MPAC data?
[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I didn't use MPAC data. I'm not even sure what data you're referring to. All the nonsense and childish naivety that I've been half assedly (is that even a word) responding to for the last couple of days just sort if blends together. Nothing I've said over the past couple of days was even remotely important to me, certainty not nearly as important as is was to those who were spitting and hissing and shitting in their own hands and flinging it at me. I'm not even sure which community this thread was in. I know I stumbled into onguardfotthe (or are there two E's?) and poked a nest of sjwtankies. They've been meticulously downvoting my every comment and I just don't care.

So, I didn't give you a straight answer because I wasn't invested enough to know where my data came from and I honestly suspect that I just pulled it out of my ass (unless I posted a link to something then it was just some numbers that seemed reasonable.) The numbers weren't important to me at all and I wasn't going to let them distract me from the actual point of my comment which was, Ford its abjectly corrupt.

This probably isn't a satisfying answer for you but it's the truth.

[–] EhForumUser@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Ford being corrupt has nothing to do with the discussion, so I fail to see how it could be the point, but given that you claim to have no awareness as to what is going on that explains that.

But if we were to make it part of the discussion, the thing is, the Premier's position is hired by the MPPs, who are hired by the constituents. In other words, Ford is just a lowly third-rank nobody. That you have allowed a third-rank employee's corruption to cut so deep speaks to there being bigger problems at the actual top – no doubt because the top brass is busy nonsensically trolling people on LinkedIn and not doing their actual job managing the workers hired. How do we resolve that?

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Ford being corrupt has nothing to do with the discussion

Well...the title of the article is, "The Greenbelt report proves it: The Ford government is corrupt" so there is that.

But [...] hired.

That's some...weapons grade nonsense.

How do we resolve that?

Well...the obvious answer is to vote him out of office but the dumbth are allowed to vote and they can be distracted with a buck a beer while the premier spends $400 million of taxpayer money building a parking garage for an exclusive private spa being built on public land with a super secret 99 year lease or orchestrating a land flip in the greenbelt which benefits 15 of his rich, developer friends.

A friend in the US suggested that there should be a requirement to pass a civics exam to establish that you have enough basic knowledge of how the country works, the laws, the constitution, your rights, the electoral system, etc. work BEFORE you're allowed to vote. That doesn't work, of course, because the dumbth have just as much right to vote under our constitution as smart folks with the necessary knowledge. As long as our system lets the lowest common denominator vote they're going to be manipulated into voting against their own best interests, the best interests of their families, their communities, and the country.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have no idea who you think you're arguing with but goddamn you're determined to argue with them.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

I'm not really arguing with anyone in particular. I'm not even sure that I was responding to the correct thread with most of the things I wrote today. I was just killing time between doing my day job and tormenting a romance scammer on LinkedIn.

[–] RagingNerdoholic@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As if proof was needed...

[–] Dearche@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago

As if MORE proof was needed.