It's obvious, and either many congressmen are an agent of a foreign power, or are truly dumb enough to not realize the unspoken obviousness of this simple fact.

Prefix: I ended up ranting/venting a bit... our government is so frustrating at times:

From a US perspective, it is more a time for other countries to step up in this regard (as they have been), as while continued funding and support from the US will happen, it may be a long time from the US (maybe even 2 to 4 years if this election cycle doesn't oust/block some of these nutjobs that are either beholden to outside powers, or don't understand anything outside our own borders).

I'll take this time to say what many keep unspoken, because Ukrainians have the balls to actually voice it to the world:

No offense to Ukrainians, I want them to win, but even a loss in Ukraine after a sustained long drawn out battle, is of benefit to any country Russia considers an adversary, a place to oppress, or a country were attractive resources. Ukraine should be supported in their opposition to this invasion for as many years as it takes, no matter what. Twenty years, fifty years, however long; there should be no metric of 'it's been 2 years, and Ukraine hasn't won; are they just wasting our money?'. That is just a dumb concept.

[–] gun@lemmy.ml -5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

*Narrator voice*
They didn't finish the job

[–] Reddfugee42@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Russia is resorting conscripting seniors and prisoners and putting them in 50 year old tanks with faulty ammo but do go on 😅

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

We've been reading this shit for two years. At this point we're coping as much propaganda as the Russians are.

Even with 500.000 Russian soldiers dead, their population is 143 million people. I'm quite sure that they still have some spare Blyats lying around.

[–] kiagam@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

not even if they were facing complete destruction would they conscript even 1% of the population.

Wars end when people get pissed or you run out of money. We are getting closer to that every day for both sides. if ukraine can at least keep getting more money, they eventually win. Ukrainians are the defenders, so their population is willing to fight for longer

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Don't look up the amount of Russian casualties in WW2.

Ukranians are getting forced into military draft too. I'm quite sure a large part of the Ukranians aren't willing to risk their lives for their country either. But you seem to have no problem sacrificing them as if they are funny peons you can throw at Russians.

Wonder how much you would support this if you were the one that was forced to go to the front line. You can volunteer to go to Ukraine and fight against the Russians yourself by the way.

[–] kiagam@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

Exactly, when Russia was being invaded, they lost a ton of people to defend their land. Doesn't mean they died willingly (people were drafted against their will, in every war in history that happens), but the pressure to surrender didn't mount up on the government. In a defensive war, people are more willing to die and to let their fellow citizens die. There are always people clamoring for an agreement or a surrender to avoid loss of life, but those voices are few compared to the ones who want to defend their land (or want others to go do it).

In a war of aggression however, every death come with a "why the fuck are we attacking them anyway? why did my son/brother/cousin have to die?". USA lost in vietnam that way. More kills, more money, won basically every engagement and still lost the war. If the population is against a war of aggression, it will end.

Very few wars end in complete domination of the enemy. Most end in an agreement of some sort or a retreat. I believe that, if Ukraine keeps getting money to stay in the fight, they will outlast Russia in political willingness to fight and will recover their land.

[+] nekandro@lemmy.ml -106 points 9 months ago (7 children)

This is just Zelenskyi's government in Kyiv sacrificing everyone else to maintain the notion of a Ukrainian state for the wealthy elite who (coincidentally) live in Kyiv. Look at where the rich are. Look at where most conscripts are from.

Ukraine is split into the ultra wealthy (Kyiv), the moderately well-off (Dnipro, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia, Kharkiv), and everywhere else (which is remarkably poor). Kyiv has more than double the GDP/capita of the next richest administrative region. This war devastates the eastern economic centers and solidifies power in Kyiv... And for what?

Ukrainian nationalism have sent hundreds of thousands of men and women to their death for no clear gains. Now, they want to send hundreds of thousands more, because the lives of Ukrainians mean nothing to the people in the white ivory towers of Kyiv. Is the sacrifice of more Ukrainian lives worth it to pursue the Western ideal of crushing Russia (so that the West can collectively focus on the Middle East and China instead)?

[–] TheDoozer@lemmy.world 67 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Ukraine isn't fighting "crush Russia" or "consolidate power," they are fighting to exist as a nation. They are fighting to not be part of Russia, and if you claim Russia doesn't consolidate wealth into a small few while sacrificing their poor as cannon fodder, you're unabashedly lying.

Now, do Western nations take advantage of this to severely weaken with no personal loss of life or territory? Absolutely. But just because it benefits the West doesn't mean it doesn't also benefit Ukraine.

[–] havocpants@lemm.ee 54 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Oh, it's Ukrainian nationalism causing the deaths is it, not Russia invading? Do you really believe such obvious bullshit and lies?

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 11 points 9 months ago

Well, if Ukraine didn't stubbornly insist on remaining a nation, there wouldn't be any fighting. Checkmate western scum. /s

[–] BloodSlut@lemmy.world 25 points 9 months ago (1 children)

so they should just become putin's bitchboys instead?

[–] reddwarf@feddit.nl 15 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Just replace Ukraine in this post with russia and you have the true facts. Incredible this projection thing, always the same with fascists like you, always blame others of what you do and want.

[–] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

Russia started this war shooting elementary schools with tanks and launching rocket strikes on hospitals. Do you really think this is just about "the western ideal" of crushing Russia? If you want to see why Ukraine is fighting so hard to not become part of Russia, just look at how shitty Russia has been to its soldiers and people during this war.

[–] jackpot@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

ukraine has put off counter attacks because the loss of life isnt worth it, they wait so they can get better equipment. compare that to russia who uses it soldiers as meatgrinders

[+] jaeme@lemmy.ml -125 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (7 children)

Ukraine is never going to win this war no matter how hard western libs keep praying.

This is the fate of any country that sells itself out to the imperial core including the EU states who facilitated this bloodbath instead of peace and diplomacy.

I hope Russia does take over the whole of Ukraine because I don't trust a Ukraine left to its own devices after this humiliating defeat.

Who's ready for the Ukranian 9/11?

[–] PlatypusXray@feddit.de 62 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I have not yet seen Russian trolls become so desperate. This must be a good sign.

[–] Windex007@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The comment history is amazing.

[–] UFODivebomb@programming.dev 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Wow. Yes. That person has issues.

[–] Justas@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago

Their biggest issue is the rubles they get paid for this are losing value every day.

[–] reddwarf@feddit.nl 32 points 9 months ago

Usually you fascist shills are a bit more creative in lying, you reek of desperation.

[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago

Tagged for future reference, thank you.

[–] crackajack@reddthat.com 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Tell me how exactly Russia benefits from the prolonged war with amounting financial cost and casualties that future generations of Russians will pay?

Russia is experiencing demographic crisis before the war, and many men either fled or died, and the country have become beholden to China, Iran and North Korea. And Russia has only issued partial mobilisation, but imagine if the entire country then mobilised more for total war just to try to beat another country that is 1/10th the size and couldn't do so for two years.

Ukraine mobilised for total war already and they're willing to die for a bigger goal and for their homeland. Are you yourself willing to be complicit to your country's decline for handful of rubles that is depreciating in value over time?

[–] gnuhaut@lemmy.ml 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

https://intellinews.com/russian-sanctions-boomerang-effect-means-a-year-of-stagnation-for-europe-in-2024-308348/

Russian sanctions boomerang effect means a year of stagnation for Europe in 2024

The boomerang effect of the Russian sanctions on the EU member states is having a mixed impact. Germany, France and Italy are worst affected as the pain from the changes in energy and input supplies impact their economies, dragging them down into recession, while the less dependent on Russia like Spain and Portugal are already showing signs of recovery, according to ING analysis.

Overall Europe is headed for a year of stagnation that could be worse than in 2023. By contrast Russia reported growth of 3.5%, according to the preliminary results. And on January 18, an ebullient Russian President Vladimir Putin said that growth could come in at over 4% after revisions. The Russian Ministry of Finance (MinFin) also revised its GDP growth outlook for 2024 up to 3.5%, much improved from the earlier Central Bank of Russia (CBR) forecasts of around 2% for this year.

Currently, sanctions seem to be doing more harm to Europe than they are to Russia.

[–] crackajack@reddthat.com 2 points 9 months ago

Russia sanctioned-proof themselves in anticipation of the consequences of invading Ukraine. They have long history and experience after all since the Soviet days of international sanctions. However, autarky always shows to only have short term effect but in the long run, the severe consequences always catches up in the end. Just look at how Soviet Union led to its eventual demise and the war in Afghanistan accelerated that collapse. The war in Ukraine will do the same to the current regime.

Conversely, even though the EU had been dependent on Russian fossil fuel before, the boomerang effect you mentioned is only short to medium term because disruption in trade is always expected during a war. But this only pushed the EU to import American gas and accelerate the EU Green New Deal to compensate for the loss of Russian gas and oil.

With Russia only having 1/5th the GDP of Italy and endemic corruption, the failure to subdue Ukraine is only going to eat at the Russian economy and political prestige. Even if Russia wins or gets concessions, it will be a Pyrrhic victory. Because loss of demographics (Russia is experiencing population decline before the war) will have severe consequences to the workforce and economy, the sanctions after the war will continue to hit the Russians, and the country will become more economically reliant to China and by extension politically as well. More importantly, the claim to stop NATO expansion just had the boomerang effect of just admitting two new nations into the alliance. With Russia tied in Ukraine, they loss influence in CSTO as member states resumed border clashes, especially with Armenia becoming frustrated on the issue of Nagorno-Karabakh.

[–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

That’s pretty much what the non-western corporate media reports. But I learned that no one in the west is ready to face it.

In Arabic we do say المتغطي بأمريكا عريان so I’m not surprised Ukraine is being hollowed out by the US and left out naked in the cold

[–] quantum_mechanic@sh.itjust.works -2 points 9 months ago

Cry harder, fascist.