Political Memes

I'm in total agreement, and have visited many union and confederate historical sites (graveyards, prisons, battlefields), which have been invaluable sources of information.

I broadly agree, but would point out that the huge number of statues erected during the civil rights era, celebrating people that led a traitorous war to defend slavery have little to no historical value, and were put in place to send a message echoing what those confederate leaders fought for.

We teach about the Nazis without celebrating them - I don't see why the Confederates should be any different.

I’ve been to this cemetery and house—the staff are beyond amazing when it comes to putting things into context. There’s even a giant sign before you enter that says something to the effect “Take a moment of somber silence before you enter, humans were enslaved here.” They’ve also done a lot of work with local black historians to try and trace the genealogy of slaves from the plantation and restore the slave quarters to show how horrific it all was.

Without looking and never studying American history, I bet >3% of the confederate soldiers were black slave soldiers fighting because their "owners" made them..

But believe it or not in the eyes of history that’s kind of a new take.

That is not, in any way, a new take. That was very much the take at the time, even among certain slaveholders. For example, here's Thomas Jefferson, a famous slaveholder, talking about the subject of slavery:

I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever: that, considering numbers, nature, and natural means only, a revolution of the wheel of fortune, an exchange of situation, is among possible events: that it may become probable by supernatural interference! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in such a contest.

Here he is, saying that God hates slavery, that slavers richly deserve death by the hands of their enslaved populace, and that slavery is a great injustice. All this while having about 200 slaves himself, including several of his own children.

Slavery is not now, and was not back then, a "complicated issue". It wasn't a moral gray area. It was a great evil perpetrated by incredibly evil people. Whether or not the slavers themselves thought that they were doing evil is irrelevant. All this hand wringing about "Oh, the times were different back then!" is complete hogwash. Do you think that abolitionists didn't exist? That they didn't tell people that slavery was evil even as the first American colonists adopted the practice? Do you think that the people back then were some kind of proto-human who didn't have the capacity for empathy or morality?

Fuck that. Your grandfather's great grandfather fought for and defended evil. He picked the wrong side. Oh, he helped some people who were sick? Bully for him. He was still a fucking prick. Fuck him forever.

My extended family's ancestors stole land from indigenous people that their descendants sold to provide a comfortable upper middle class life for their family. Fuck them for destroying the livelihood, culture and lives of those people. If people want to piss on their graves I wouldn't stop them.

They are dead and gone. What ever feelings the dirt and stone provoke are your own. The dead flowers too are only for yourself. Me, I despise the unempethic people who brought suffering to others. They did live in a different time and any one person alone couldn't have done enough to change all of society. If I'm going out of my way to honor a thought in my head I would chose to honor the few that did put society on the right track.

There's an old saying that the Civil War was "a rich man's war, but a poor man's fight".

The National Parks Service put this together, and I think it really shows the people who died were fighting for a variety of reasons. It doesn't mean we should glorify the Confederacy, but the people in that cemetery deserve their peace.

https://www.nps.gov/apco/planyourvisit/upload/Why-Confederates-Fought-Final.pdf

Rush Limbaugh's grave, on the other hand, will always be a gender-neutral bathroom.

Story time? Please?

We need a Sherman posting Lemmy sub

No, I think it's recognition that whatever crimes you think they've done, they've paid for it already in a permanent way. So joking about pissing on their graves (160 years later ffs) is ill taste. Feel free to smear shit or graffiti over confederate statues that seek to glorify the cause rather than memorialize the dead though since that is not the same thing.

I also think most common soldiers in the confederate army fought for no higher reason than they were drafted and had little choice; or they signed up to defend their state against an existential threat. If you look at recruitment posters of the time, they're talking of northern invaders raping and pillaging their women, property and lands.

"Nazis deserve respect too!" these absolute cretins sob, "They were products of their time!"