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I'm going with this Dell and returning my Lenovo Slim 7 Pro. In my previous thread saying I switched to Windows I read that Dells offer great compatibility. I ordered this Dell XPS 13 and plan on going with Pop OS. Thoughts on this? Good choice?

Edit: Apparently it's certified with Ubuntu 20.04 LTS. I assume I should go with This particular Ubuntu version then?

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[–] onlinepersona@programming.dev 41 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

If you don't care about using a webcam (it's very unstable on linux), the machine is good. However, if you want to use a linux laptop, get a linux laptop, not something conceived for windows with linux as an afterthought. https://linuxpreloaded.com/ has a list of shops that sell linux first hardware

If you do however insist on buying something that's windows first, it's advisable to check the linux hardware database with your model first. For example, here's the model you're buying. Somewhat consistently, these components aren't recognized across distros:

  • Alder Lake Imaging Signal Processor
  • Goodix USB2.0 MISC
  • USB Bridge

and no webcam is detected at all. Having one of the Dell XPS 13s myself, I'd rather go for a TuxedoComputers laptop if given the choice, but if you don't have that option and don't care about the webcam, then it's good choice.

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[–] festus@lemmy.ca 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Just want to add that Framework isn't quite Linux first, more like Linux second / Linux conscious. With some tweaking it works great but there are sometimes little issues that crop up, especially if you're using the newest machines.

For example, when I got my Intel 12th gen Framework last year, X was super laggy (opening a terminal and typing a few characters might take several seconds). You'd have to end up disabling some kernel power management setting. That was fixed in later kernel releases and was because it was new hardware, but their focus pre-release was making sure Windows worked well on it, not Linux. Technically even now there's some kind of conflict between the ambient light sensor and the screen brightness keys and the fix has always been to disable the light sensor, so I've never actually used that feature on my laptop (unsure why Windows is unaffected).

It's still a great laptop and I absolutely love them, but I think other shops like System76 should get credit for their top-tier Linux support.

[–] onlinepersona@programming.dev 4 points 2 years ago

Thanks for the comment. That was the impression I got as well, but a few other comments I've read (on other threads) seemed to imply it was a linux first laptop.

I do remember the first time I opened the page, it was a windows laptop and was the reason I decided against buying one. Your comment does confirm it for me. I'll add a note to my previous comment.

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[–] baseless_discourse@mander.xyz 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I had my framework AMD and I havent encountered any problem with fedora 39; besides very early bios (only affecting batch 1 and early batch 2, I believe) and a AMD display bug (which is documented in detail and fixable with one command).

Everything else works extremely smoothly, including webcam, brightness key, ambient light sensor, and privacy shutter. Honestly, I would put their support against any linux first laptop, their support team is very responsive, and their support lead was the ex-support lead from system 76.

One more bit of information: the very laptop on the fedora workstation webpage is a framework laptop. They seem to be on very good term with most distro developers, and likely will get more attention when something goes wrong.


I think most of the problem you mentioned are the nature of new hardware, not caused by poor support from framework.

However, one of the reason I landed on framework is because they offer cutting-edge hardware that other manufactures don't.

I think they are still the only linux manufacture that uses AMD 7040U chip, which is a great everyday chip with excellent power efficiency. This kind of make them stand out from the competition for me.

[–] festus@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't think their Linux support is bad, but it's not Linux first. If Windows users had to run a command to fix a display bug it would have been held back until it was fixed. With something like System76 you get a laptop with Linux preinstalled that just works, no commands necessary.

Keep in mind I called them Linux-conscious / Linux-second. They still focus on making it a fantastic machine for Linux users, but I think it's a little less than some other shops provide for Linux.

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[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 26 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The Lenovo Slim series of the past couple years are absolutely broken for any kind of non-Windows operation. Stay away.

[–] jezebelley3d@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 years ago

Yep glad I'm able to return it!

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[–] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

I think the XPS 13 is a nice device.

For reference: I think your mistake was buying a Lenovo laptop without the word "ThinkPad" in the name. There are Lenovo Thinkpad something devices. They are (usually) more likely to support Linux. And there are Lenovo comsumer devices and they're a mixed bag.

[–] d00phy@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This is what I came here to say. Specifically the T, P, & W series ThinkPads. I’ve never had issues with Ubuntu or Fedora on any of those. Unfortunately, Lenovo’s been “diluting” the brand with things like the ThinkPad Yoga line.

[–] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Agree to disagree. My laptop is in fact a ThinkPad Yoga 460. And I'm quite happy with it! What's the issue with that line? I mean there are also Yogas without the ThinkPad, which makes it confusing. But I just skip past the showcased laptops that don't have the nipple mouse. And I've talked to my dealer a few years after I bought that device and he told me lots of other customers had hardware issues. So I think there are some quality issues, but that is a known problem also for other ThinkPads since after the IBM times.

[–] d00phy@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Not saying there’s a problem with them, just like you said: it’s confusing the product lines. ThinkPad is/was a business laptop that’s expected to be durable and pretty widely compatible. Hence its long history of Linux compatibility. I haven’t messed with any of the Yogas, ThinkPad or otherwise, but I’ve played with quite a few of the series I mentioned. I was just qualifying my statement that I’ve not seen Linux compatibility issues with T, P, & W series.

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[–] WetBeardHairs@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I used to love Thinkpad laptops up until Lenovo bought the line - build quality dropped off a cliff after that. I've avoided them since then so I can't comment on their current build qualities except to say they used to be built stronger than those toughbooks with handles.

[–] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 years ago

I had a X61, I think that was shortly after Lenovo started building them and still very much like the models before. But that was a long long time ago.

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[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

XPS 13 generally has good compatibility with Linux. You can check Ubuntu certified models here. I personally went with Framework instead.

[–] HeyLow@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Would have sworn yesterday you made a lengthy post saying you switched back to windows? What the hell happened in 14 hours?

[–] jezebelley3d@lemmy.zip 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Sometimes when people are given suggestions for things to try they actually take them into consideration. I know this is highly usual these days as people only want to constantly argue online, but I legitimately take advice to try new things.

Some people in that thread gave me ideas to have less headaches with Linux, so I'm going to try them out.

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[–] meekah@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

The comments in the other thread convinced OP to try a Dell.

[–] baseless_discourse@mander.xyz 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I have great experience with my framework AMD, excellent Linux hardware support and excellent support team. I have never encountered less problem on any system I own, including dell and hp.

Linux specific manufactures like system 76, tuxedo, slimbook, starlab, and nova custom are also great options, but I cannot endorse them since I never used any of them.

With framework, you get:

  • assembled in Taiwan, with many components made in Taiwan
  • more "cutting-edge" hardware (might require some minor tweaking, like running couple commands; but they have extremely detailed documentations on these tweaks).
  • better upgradablity (upgrade CPU, main board and battery)
  • 3:2 display with reasonable DPI (but need fractional scaling)

With other linux manufacture, you have

  • (some) coreboot, system76 even has intel ME disabled.
  • standard screen resolution (1080P is bit grainy for me but you dont need fractional scaling)
  • preconfigured and preinstalled linux distro; 100% works out of the box, no tweaking or command.

BTW, I think most of these laptops have great windows support as well (but check before you buy), so you are not locked into linux.

[–] SapphironZA@lemmings.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Another vote for the framework. They are the only manufacturer actively supporting Windows and Linux.

[–] baseless_discourse@mander.xyz 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I think tuxedo (do not offer to pre-install Windows), nova custom, slim book, starlab also officially supports Windows 11. But framework definitely have much more detailed documentation on configuring Windows.

In general, if they are using common consumer hardware that supports linux, then it is almost guaranteed to have pretty good windows support as well.

[–] bizdelnick@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Brand does not matter. You will likely get in trouble with any new laptop model. Install the latest kernel, and probably most of them will be gone. But some can be fixed only after a year or so.

My Dell with preinstalled Ubuntu had a fingerprint scanner not working, wifi chip losing connection and disabled "subwoofer" (lol). After a year or two of upgrading a distro everything works (well, I mapped subwoofer output in config and idk if this still needed or not).

[–] Excigma@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Dell laptops have mostly just worked on Linux quite well, but you may run into issues with the camera, however this hack(?) has worked for me: https://github.com/stefanpartheym/archlinux-ipu6-webcam.

I believe Dell has a catch for the camera saying that it may use more CPU when in use. Whilst the laptop is Ubuntu Certified, the camera only works if you select the Ubuntu option instead of Windows, and use the install they give you.

Some other nice things to have:

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[–] solidgrue@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Dell > Lenovo most days. Buy the Ubuntu edition to spurn the Windows license, then install whatever.

[–] Lichtblitz@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 2 years ago

The Lenovo business models (ThinkPad series) are amazing value. My 11 year old laptop is still going strong.

Just stay far away from any Lenovo non-business models.

[–] M500@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I’ve been wondering what the best non-Mac laptop is. Like something that’s premium feeling without being the same price as a Mac.

I have a Lenovo laptop-14 that I really like, but it’s a bit thick and the screen is a bit dim at times. The speakers are also very quiet.

Is an xps what I should be looking at?

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[–] throwawayish@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

If you want to use Linux on your laptop, is there any reason not to go for 'dedicated' Linux laptops?

FWIW, I haven't seen these Linux-first vendors being mentioned under your post yet: NovaCustom and Star Labs.

[–] MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

Get a thinkpad?

[–] skozzii@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 years ago

Get a proper lenovo thinkpad it's way better than a Dell. My x1 carbon is amazing.

[–] Dirk@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Don't know about Pop OS, but I'm running an XPS 13 (9380) with Arch using Wayland without any issues.

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[–] fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

XPS machine are generally pretty well built machines. But 1300 for a 12th gen machine right after 14th gen has just come out?

I don't think Dell has 14th gen based XPS 13 yet but I wouldn't pay MSRP for a machine with a 2 year old CPU. I'm sure you can find it for a lot less elsewhere.

[–] jezebelley3d@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Using slightly older architecture has better support for Linux. Compatibility is the most important thing to me here and this chip is Ubuntu certified.

In terms of what matters for compatibility 12th and 13th gen are largely the same, just a better P core. iGPU is identical, chipsets are largely the same etc. 14th gen almost certainly will post a problem, but 13th gen is a nice step up.

Alternatively just pay a lot less for the machine. I'm surprised best buy has the balls to list it for that much without any discounts. With 14th gen rolling out I'd hope prices will tank on those machines, if not new then used they're getting close to the 3 year mark and their value will plummet.

[–] njordomir@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

I bought a xps 13 9370 and several years and two self-replaced batteries later, I'm not noticing even a hint of age related slowdown. I thought the lack of USB-A ports would be a problem, but it wasn't. I have run Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Mint, Manjaro, Arch, EndeavorOS, Solus, MXLinux, Debian, OpenSUSE, Fedora, and many others on this machine with minimal issues. I don't know about the models after mine, but the 9370 was a solid choice.

[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

XPS13 has very highly positive reviews from several sources. I've had the same dilemma as you 3 years ago and went with the XPS13 9310 and I'm extremely happy with it. So much that I bought an on sale Razer Book 13 for my wife since it's almost an XPS 13 with a different name.
Note that I don't have the "developer" version of the XPS but it runs with no issues at all. I can install Linux myself, don't need someone to do that for me and I'm not using Ubuntu anyway. Also, the delivery delay were insane when I bought it and I was extremely lucky to find a "regular" version in one of my local stores.

I've tried a lot of laptops over 30 years and no brand was convincing enough to get me returning to them every time. I just go where I can find the hardware I need enclosed in a well-enough robust case and I'm done. All the parts are sold by the same manufacturers anyway. The difference between brands is just which parts are assembled together and how well it's done.

As a bonus, it's also nice that the firmware of the XPS 13 (including the bios) can be updated with fwupd.

[–] Carter@feddit.uk 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Out of curiosity, why not go for something that supports Linux out of the box? Why stock to mainstream?

[–] 0xtero@beehaw.org 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Dell supports pre-installed Ubuntu on the XPS Plus configuration. You can order it with Ubuntu installed out of their webshop. They also have repos for all the drivers.

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[–] the16bitgamer@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

I've had bad experience with Dell and their chargers. Took 2-3 attempts at an RMA to get a working one.

I am currently running a Klevo (branded as Gigabyte) laptop and its working great for my needs.

Also it looks like the Framework Laptop is in budget for you. Not sure if you've looked into them.

[–] gunpachi@lemmings.world 3 points 2 years ago

Xps 13 is a great laptop. Personally I would install arch or artix in it.

[–] 1984@lemmy.today 2 points 2 years ago

I have Lenovo and not happy with it. Weird issues like unable to start it when battery has run out and it's plugged into docking station. Need to wait like 15 mins before it even turns on.

Also issues with docking stations (from Dell) not showing external screen unless i unplug the cable at boot and then put it in during boot.

I guess all this could be because I run Linux though but I'm just not happy with the laptop.

I would get a framework laptop as a next one.

[–] Email@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

On Ubuntu 22.04 me and a relative tried to fix the sound on the XPS 13 9315. Neither of us found an easy fix. We hopped distribution to get it working, hope you have better luck with 20.04.

[–] jezebelley3d@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

What distro did you end up using?

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